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Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by pkdpic on Thursday February 23, 2023 @10:53AM (#34912120)
The grandparents point is excellent. I never thought of it that way but it was / is certainly true for me.

Definitely feels true for kids growing up without siblings too. I know we would have had more than one probably if housing wasn't such an enormous consideration.

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by montagg on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:04AM (#34912280)
Yeah, the family planning changes that result from housing costs literally have generational effects. Even if you think of it just from a housing and economy perspective, the tax base and workforce of the future is smaller because of high housing costs. Value that could be better for everyone (more jobs can be done, more tax can be spent on everyone, more economic activity can occur for businesses) taken out of the future and brought into present home values.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by loeg on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:05AM (#34912293)
Not just grandparents -- often kids cannot afford to live near their parents. My parents bought their house for $490,000 (2023 dollars) and Redfin estimates it would cost $1,300,000 today.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by ido on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:21AM (#34912500)
That was the point though, right? Your kids won't know your parents (their grandparents) if you're forced to live really far away.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by dclowd9901 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:40AM (#34912802)
With some exceptions, I plan on moving wherever my kids live. Not sure why this is unthinkable.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by steveklabnik on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:46AM (#34912893)
My mother could not afford to move reasonably close to where I live (Austin, not CA though). Certainly not in walking distance, maybe in a suburb, but that's even assuming she could find work.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by dpkirchner on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:54AM (#34913008)
This won't scale all that well -- like if you have more than one kid.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by QuercusMax on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:10PM (#34913274)
Yeah, my parents at one point had their 5 adult kids living in Ohio, Oregon, California, North Carolina, and Brazil. Really doesn't scale.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by randomdata on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:26AM (#34912569)
Surely housing your kids elsewhere would be more expensive than keeping them under your roof?

Early settler homes were typically a single room and not much bigger than a modern living room, and they had many kids living there. Space is a wonderful luxury, but hardly a necessity.

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by jxramos on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:39AM (#34912790)
it's always a good point to look to prior human challenges in history to tease out essentials from simple hardships as hard as they could be. People survived those ordeals in spite of the limitations.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by notch898a on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:28AM (#34912608)
It is a 'necessity'. Building and/or zoning codes require often 1200 sq ft minimum and then it's illegal to rent out beyond a certain occupancy.

You may be able to get away with it with just adults. Kids talk, sooner or later some 'well meaning' individual reports them to CPS for 'inadequate shelter' and the whole thing destruct.

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by jxramos on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:40AM (#34912795)
I'd think they'd say that was a self imposed constraint not tied to any absolute survival needs of the human body.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by myko on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:53AM (#34912992)
We could also live in caves but folks wouldn't recommend that. A family living in a single room the size of a modern living room would soon get child protection agencies called on them–what was normal in pioneer days (pro-creating in the same room as your children, for example) would certainly be a serious issue today!
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by randomdata on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:11PM (#34913304)
But pushing your kids far away to live without parents wouldn't be a serious issue?
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by LeifCarrotson on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:32PM (#34913649)
GP was saying that 27-42yo millenials are not likely to be able to afford to live near their boomer/Gen X parents, so the grandparents of the millennials' 0-18yo children are not close to those grandkids.

I feel very fortunate to live in a Midwestern small city, to have bought in 2014, and to have the skills and tools to fix up a foreclosure with lots of problems, so that I can live within 5 miles of my parents (so that my son can grow up within 5 miles of his grandparents). That 5 miles, though, is a car trip, because their house was $145k in 1995 and is now worth some $700k. There's no way as the sole breadwinner that I could buy a house within walking distance my 6-year-old's grandparents (my parents).

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by randomdata on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:50PM (#34913904)
> GP was saying that 27-42yo millenials are not likely to be able to afford to live near their boomer/Gen X parents

While you are right that perspective was taken from that of a millennial, the parents you speak of were the grandparents in the discussion. The kids are the children of the millennials. While it is true that some millennials do have adult children now, it is not common. Most millennials with children have children who are not yet adults and there is a general expectation that said children will live under the same roof as their parents.

And yes, that is most likely what the GP meant, despite the earlier discussion which already setup the context. Which is why we’re joking about it.

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by myko on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:23PM (#34913502)
To be clear, I'm for higher density housing and new builds in the Bay and outlying areas, which would make it easier for families to stay closer together.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by CalRobert on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:26PM (#34913557)
Adult children. And as much as I love my folks I'd rather live in a separate building. So would they, since they're divorced.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by mistrial9 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:29PM (#34913589)
humans are primates and respond to what the other primates are doing, right now.. there is a reason that price extraction and gate-keeping were so massively inflated.. it worked.

side-note: one of the convicted defendants in the USC pay-to-play scandal paid a couple of hundred thousand dollars for their two kids to get placement in a prestigious college. His job title? Director of a property title clearing house in San Diego county. hundreds of thousands of dollars in "envelope" money.. get the idea of how profitable it has been to do this real estate market stuff ?

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by mschuster91 on Thursday February 23, 2023 @11:23AM (#34912521)
> often kids cannot afford to live near their parents.

That's one point, but another is that the careers of many young people force them to migrate across the country or even across continents. Academia and IT are particularly known for this, but also other industries like moviemaking have their world-wide-known centers.

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by thatfrenchguy on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:16PM (#34913401)
> The grandparents point is excellent. I never thought of it that way but it was / is certainly true for me.

Eh, I mean, for a lot of homeowners in the bay area, because they so little amount of housing compared to market price, they usually can (and do for some communities) front large down payements for their kids' houses. That's how you see so many people in their late 20s affording houses you have two have two or three of: two good incomes, frugal mindset, good RSUs / IPOs, or parental help.

Obviously it sucks for people who do not have upper middle class parents, and that's why we need to fix this stupid housing crisis.

Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by davidw on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:24PM (#34913516)
Yes, having a 'landed gentry' is not ideal in a lot of ways. Especially in an area that really has seen some amazing success from fairly 'average background' sorts of people.
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by CalRobert on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:25PM (#34913538)
We had a second kid in part because we moved to a house big enough for one (3 bedrooms!)
Re:95% of Bay Area Cities Lost Zoning Authority by mavelikara on Thursday February 23, 2023 @12:28PM (#34913573)
> The grandparents point is excellent. I never thought of it that way but it was / is certainly true for me.

But do the grandparents want to know the kids? If they did, they would not oppose new housing near theirs.