Right, but "If you upgrade the screen, batteries, trackpad, speakers, RAM and SSD and then it's a pretty good laptop" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

A 38-horsepower 1980s Mini 1000 is a fast car, if you install the engine and drivetrain from a Toyota Celica GT-Four.

Did you... just quote my favourite car of all times, the GT-Four?!

The best things in life can't be bought ready and require thought and even sacrifice.

Ikea furniture requires you to build it.

The best beds on the planet are pre-assembled.

Not saying the exact thing you're saying isn't true (IE; the best things in life are actually not things but relationships and experiences); but it is categorically untrue that "the best products require you to build them".

Messing with a few screws and latches is not exactly "building". "The best bed" depends on who's asking, and it would have to be built for you.

Similarly, you could hire someone to build a laptop for you if you categorically object.

Rather than a bed, a better analogy is a home - even the best ready plan can be improved for a particular family. Apple just doesn't allow that.

At what point is it building then?

Assembling could be considered the right term I would suppose, but equally I wouldn't say that the author "assembled" his laptop, since it involves disassembly.

> isn't exactly a ringing endorsement

Why not? Consider it a DIY kit, not a product, and you'll be happy. People build their own IKEA furniture with countless mods applied to it, why not do the same with a laptop? The framework is popular for a reason.

They are popular around here but I'm not sure they're popular in general.

I discuss laptops with a fair amount of people in real life and none have heard of the Framework laptop. They do, however, know what a MacBook Pro or ThinkPad is, and some even know they can customize the latter.

Binky!

Erm, I believe it's spelled "SillyCar".

Which battery is required for 20+ hour capacity?

And which track pad are you referring to?

The track pad has always been the hardest part about moving away from a MacBook. Love my XPS, but I HATE it’s track pad. Battery life is another reason, but swappable batteries would be amazing (not on XPS)

Same, but I think he might refer to an external trackpad.

I haven't ever encointered people upgrading their trackpads.

It can be done in this case. Tho I’m unclear if the X1E is ‘Macbook equivalent’.

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/j0mrh5/t480_with_...

Hence the question. Love to know a trackpad (even external) that is of a similar feel and quality as the MacBooks.

Personally, I prefer the X1E trackpad over the feel of the trackpad on my dell XPS on or my friends' macbook M1s.

Apple offers one if i'm not mistaken.

Does anybody even use the trackpad on a thinkpad?

> a battery that has 20h+ capacity and can be swapped with a second one to double the capacity in seconds

Any computer that can be charged with a usb-c connection doesn't need additional proprietary external batteries, you can just use a generic battery pack, which is why the T480 was the last TP with an external battery.

If you want to a) have a huge external device connected all the time, b) destroy your battery with constant charge cycles so badly that you need to replace it every few months, and c) want to be unable to charge other devices from your laptop.

> c) want to be unable to charge other devices from your laptop.

You just charge them with battery pack.

The whole point of a laptop is that I can use it on my lap, on public transit. That's not possible with your recommendation.

Having a cable go from my laptop to a battery in my bag isn't the biggest issue, even on my lap, but maybe things are different for your use case. Granted, since my laptop lasts >12 hours, I never really worry about battery life too much anymore anyway.

The question I replied to was about charging other devices from laptop. You can charge your other devices in your bag with battery pack, not dangling from your laptop while you're charging them.

> a battery that has 20h+ capacity and can be swapped with a second one to double the capacity in seconds.

And which basically doubles the size and weight of the laptop.

Yep, it ain't pretty, it's just possible. If you're a function over form kind of person, the ability to work for several days in a camp site or road trip without plugging it in is a terrific accomplishment and well worth the extra bulk. If you're the latter (form over function) then in the case of batteries, the cure is worse than the disease.

Does that actually matter? Seriously, it's less that some of the text books I used to lug around at school.

I thought the same until I developed shoulder and back pain from carrying around too much stuff all the time. Be thankful that it still doesn't matter for you.

Of course not. While not strictly a ThinkPad, IBM used to make some very loud "communication devices" that Americans famously toted around the European continent in the 1940s; the largest batteries available for them still didn't push its weight over 6 pounds.

They seemed to manage that just fine. You can carry a computer across the office.

That aside, the extended battery on the T480 is still bad- it raises the bottom of the laptop and prevents the laptop from sitting flat. This was avoided on the older models by designing the hinges and lid properly such that the 100Wh battery would simply stick out the back but they don't make them like that any more.

Why is raising the laptop bad? I have a few ThinkPads of that era - having the back raised is quite nice. The battery also provides a convenient carrying lip/handle.

can you actually link to the ones you recommend then?

Because I am quite interested then in figuring out the economics side of obtaining one

I’ve modded mine with 16 GB DDR-3 3200MHz RAM [2], a 2 TB NVMe SSD [3], a Wi-Fi 6AX card [4], the Innolux N140HCG-GQ2 1080p 100% sRGB 8-bit 400 nits panel [5] (based on the T14 display), and the Lenovo 61++ battery [6].

You can get laptop + all the mods for below 800$ depending on local pricing, if you use a T470 as base for below 600$.

[2] https://www.amazon.de/dp/B08LQG2SDS/ [3] https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07MLJD32L/ [4] https://www.amazon.de/dp/B087WVLPXW/ [5] https://www.xelent-store.de/Innolux-N140HCG-GQ2-400cd-Low-Po... [6] https://www.amazon.de/dp/B06WGMPFCD

Thinkpads are traditionally scoring high points at repairability and durability. It almost become a must-go step for battery swaps right after getting an used Thinkpad model.

> a screen that beats the M1

By what metrics?

By whatever metrics you want, you can choose which panel to install.

You can beat a 224ppi P3 display with working auto brightness and auto whitepoint (truetone)?

Auto brightness and auto whitetone aren't features of the panel, but of the OS. Apple just mosattributes that, as always.

And yes, 200+ ppi P3 displays are easily available, Apple just buys their panels from the same suppliers that are available to you.

They are features of other hardware associated with the panel like light sensors.

And no, just because a contract manufacturer makes the panels doesn't mean they also designed them.

Is it even possible to buy a panel with higher ppi than the mac pros? Genuinely asking here. I guess if you value 240hz you could run with that.

Apple usually buys their panels from LG, most of the time you can get better price/performance if you buy the same panel directly or in other assemblies.

Where at? Do you have a link?

I'd recommend modding a panel from a different thinkpad, like from the newer X1 models: https://www.ebay.com/itm/354162731881 This should, with slight modifications, fit any thinkpad with a non-touch 40-pin eDP. Not all T480 will have the right connector, so make sure you've got the right one before buying.

This panel will get you full DCI-P3 color gamut at 3840x2160 in 10-bit, but only 500 nits.

Thanks for the link, this is definitely a "nicer" panel than MBP ones. Maybe it is time to jerry-rig my t420 :)

Well, it definitely beats the MBP at resolution (290 vs 220ppi), has the same colorspace, same brightness, and is much cheaper and easy to replace :)

Can you link these things?

I’ve used T series Thinkpads for years (mostly to mimic the environment of most of my clients), there are definitely better computers out there if you plan to swap out most of the parts. https://frame.work/

Tbh, if I could put the framework's AMD motherboard in my T470, that'd be amazing. I love the thinkpad keyboard, I enjoy the X1E glass touchpad, the T14 Gen2 screen is amazing, my battery life is 13h of work in IDEA, and I got all of it combined for less than 600$.

But I really dislike the hardware of the framework :/

There is no AMD yet