News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by vasco on Saturday February 18, 2023 @03:22AM (#34845086)
I'm 7 years into fully remote, and will not work for a company that does even hybrid teams. You just need to work somewhere that sees the world as you see it instead of trying to understand any meaning behind megacorp decisions.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by sussexby on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:46AM (#34845526)
I’m nearly 7 years into hybrid/remote and am seeking opportunity to rejoin a proper collaborative working environment that’s physical, not virtual.

However, what’s right for me isn’t right for you and enforcing a rule one way or another does not work so I agree with your point.

Megacorps need to understand that we humans have a range of preferences and, if we’re to assume some prefer remote and some prefer office, then making a big decision as Amazon has will alienate a decent amount of workers. Cue calamity.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by throwaway426079 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:54AM (#34845577)
" a proper collaborative working environment that’s physical, not virtual."

If you believe that only physical environments can be properly collaborative then you invalidate the remainder of your post.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by JackFr on Saturday February 18, 2023 @05:03AM (#34845621)
The parent never claims that only a physical environment can be properly collaborative.

Literally the next sentence after the one you quote is “what’s right for isn't right for you”.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by throwaway426079 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:20PM (#34851222)
It reads exactly that way.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by sussexby on Saturday February 18, 2023 @06:08AM (#34845960)
I’m stating that I’m after an environment that’s physical, not virtual.

I’m not saying that only physical environments have those qualities - I’m saying through my experience I work better, feel better, and contribute better when I can communicate in a physical space and not a virtual one.

Again, as I say, whatever is right for the individual. If virtual works for you, that’s great, but I’m consciously stepping out of remote work as I really struggle with it.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by mulmen on Sunday February 19, 2023 @03:31PM (#34861543)
Collaboration isn’t a personal preference. By definition it requires at least one other party. In person collaboration is far more expensive in terms of real estate, time, and cognitive load. People who can work remotely effectively should be at an economic and productivity advantage.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by edgyquant on Saturday February 18, 2023 @09:35AM (#34847209)
Even if they did claim that they are more than welcome to that opinion
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by mFixman on Saturday February 18, 2023 @07:12AM (#34846304)
That would make sense if closed offices became common again.

It's impossible to collaborate in an open office. It's hard to talk to my team if that requires yelling louder than the other 200 people in the floor.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by apple4ever on Saturday February 18, 2023 @06:25PM (#34852218)
Exactly. Offices would be so much easier to work in if everyone had an office. It boggles my mind that open offices are so desired by management.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by Lacerda69 on Sunday February 19, 2023 @05:26AM (#34856234)
They are magnitudes cheaper i would imagine.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by mFixman on Sunday February 19, 2023 @06:29AM (#34856655)
There's a nice middle point that Google used in 2012 with one office per ~10 person team team.

The offices are big enough to not be _too_ expensive, and small enough to enhance collaboration and concentration.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by anothernewdude on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:50AM (#34845547)
Exactly. Hybrid teams just makes some employees second class.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by postalrat on Monday February 20, 2023 @08:57AM (#34868099)
Why is that?
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by legutierr on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:56AM (#34845586)
> You just need to work somewhere that sees the world as you see it instead of trying to understand any meaning behind megacorp decisions.

This is a great philosophy to have when your skills are in high demand. What do you say to the people who might have trouble finding a full-remote job that pays enough?

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by vasco on Saturday February 18, 2023 @05:44AM (#34845834)
My life philosophy aligns with my own life, my perceived abilities and the environment around me to make me happy.

I don't think anyone is born and dreams about working remote doing engineering work in front of a computer for 8 hours a day. You end up doing a venn diagram of what you like with what the world offers and you decide what your values are.

If my life philosophy would include sipping margaritas at the beach or spending my days with my friends outside building an off-grid community I'd be out of luck because I'm not rich and my friends are not rich either.

Find a job that you like because you'll get good at it and your skills will be in high demand as well. Work hard and save enough every month to be able to walk away and into the company next door if your boss turns to shit.

My grandpa passed this philosophy to me and he was a plumber from a remote village in Portugal. He'd tell me how he kept to his values and didn't work for anyone that didn't respect him. He didn't die rich but he was proud in his work. Find what that is for you.

If people focused more on this instead of needing to place themselves on either side "get max salary" or "unionize the world" things would be way better.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by juve1996 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @09:16AM (#34847087)
Life is hard. You have to sacrifice somewhere. It's unfair. Our worker's rights have been further eroded. Megacorps dominate the space with no real competition insight.

But I still believe in individual agency. There are things individuals can still do to make things better. I feel for the edge cases of people who don't have choice. But in general, people have more choice than they think.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by edgyquant on Saturday February 18, 2023 @09:34AM (#34847201)
It’s not unfair. 3 years ago no one would have pretended remote was a “right” and the reason people think workers rights have eroded is because they continue to pile on perks and nice to haves and pretend they’re rights.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by juve1996 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @10:46AM (#34847722)
It sure is unfair to say a role is remote and then change that in less than 2 years.

Either way you're missing the complete point of the post to harp on a meaningless detail. I was no way implying that remote work is a "right." I was simply pointing out how in many ways worker's rights have been diminished. One only has to look at the recent rail strike to see that, or the countless examples of wage theft, or the switching of hourly to salary to avoid paying overtime.

But despite all this we still have some agency and we should exercise it, even if things are "wrong" or "unfair." That's the point.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by edgyquant on Saturday February 18, 2023 @03:06PM (#34850518)
It’s not, we in tech are just out of touch (on average.) Jobs and their requirements change all the time and most people deal with it or find a job more to their liking.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by pm90 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @01:03PM (#34849241)
> they continue to pile on perks and nice to haves and pretend they’re rights.

The evolution of worker rights has always followed this path. Introduced as perks, then standardized and encoded legally as rights. While there are outliers that get dunked on a lot ( eg on-site laundry at Meta) for the most part the perks have been entirely reasonable (flexible hours and schedules).

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by edgyquant on Saturday February 18, 2023 @09:33AM (#34847192)
Something like: I’ve been there and didn’t expect to work fully remote at any company. Fully remote has long been a luxury afforded to the upper echelons of companies in most places. I’m sorry you fell for the meme during Covid that all jobs were remote now.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by brandon272 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @04:08PM (#34851107)
Remote work is not some fundamental human right. If your skills are not in high demand, you have no leverage to make many demands about your work arrangement.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by tkiolp4 on Saturday February 18, 2023 @07:19PM (#34852628)
It’s not a human right, but more like the 40h/week right most of the first world countries manage to get.
Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by mensetmanusman on Saturday February 18, 2023 @12:24PM (#34848773)
I’ve seen hours replaced by second in terms of communication speed ups by chatgpt. I’m sure that won’t show up on anyone’s productivity metric.

Why? Because the calculation is biased by how atoms move, not information.

Re:Amazon will require employees return to the office 3 days... by turdprincess on Saturday February 18, 2023 @06:40PM (#34852322)
Ive been in some "mixed" sessions lately where some are remote and some are in person and its the worst case scenario. I feel like a second class citizen when someone points a grainy laptop camera at a whiteboard they are drawing on. The second I can't grab a marker and contribute, I just lost my full ability to participate.

Fully remote works great - there are plenty of awesome collaboration tools (Miro for example) where you can collaborate. Fully in-person obviously works as well.

But with hybrid, someone always loses - either the folks in the room or the folks on the screen.