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Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by beezlewax on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:07AM (#34558703)
Cognitive reasoning has nothing to do with addiction. Addicts invent the most convoluted complex reasoning to not quit that are also contrary to facts the are keenly aware of. Mental gymnastics.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by corobo on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:31AM (#34558938)
Can confirm anecdotally on this one. I had accepted the logical reasons to quit a good year or so before I actually got rid of them.

When I did manage to kick them it was after I read the Easy way to quit smoking by Allen Carr which helped with the mindset then admittedly I ruined the data by moving house and starting a work from home job, therefore got rid of all of my cigarette initiating habits in one go.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by nohuck13 on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:54AM (#34559151)
Are you sure your anecdotal confirmation confirms this?

The higher cognitive function that leads you to read books about quitting could be exactly the mechanism the GP describes.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by williamcotton on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#34559584)
From what I remember, Easy Way even tells you to keep smoking when you start the book and to stop reading if you don’t feel ready!

FWIW, I also credit that book with me finally quitting the habit.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by corobo on Saturday January 28, 2023 @06:05PM (#34562945)
It does yeah, I think that was what made my mind open up to the book early on. An intriguing enough nonfiction twist, I had to see where it was going with this.

I was expecting a mix of "here's why it's bad" and "here's the good stuff, and at which milestone dates you'll notice them" maybe.

The stuff I already knew and believed in really strongly.. for 20 minutes until the third 'last' cigarette of the month.

If anyone else is stuck in a holding pattern of quitting it's worth giving it a shot. Promise no affiliation haha, go see if your local bookshop or charity shop has a used copy for 20p (the pages will be a deep yellow, of course)

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by skhm on Sunday January 29, 2023 @05:15AM (#34566707)
I read a different Easy Way book of Carr’s (I understand they are all similar) but felt like by the end I’d been scammed or something - he repeatedly tells you the Way works, and trust the process, and then the book … finishes?

Is it really just that the Easy Way is a self-referential thing and the Way is itself to think about the Way a lot and in doing so convince yourself or your subconscious that you’ve reached some sort of solution despite having not? Or was there some set of concrete messages I might just have missed?

Is the act of reading the book the thing itself?

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by williamcotton on Sunday January 29, 2023 @09:03AM (#34568171)
There is definitely an element of self-hypnosis!
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by lo_zamoyski on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:37AM (#34559005)
Indeed. This is a matter of virtue. Being more "adept" can lead to more elaborate rationalizations and evasions of the truth to justify substance abuse or even deny that any abuse is happening.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by darkerside on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:34AM (#34558976)
Former smoker, and I agree with this.

More likely, people who smoke do function better cognitively with a cigarette in their hand. They are nervous and irritable without it. Their brains probably produce insufficient dopamine when they aren't smoking.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by themitigating on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:47PM (#34559700)
People who are addicted to cocaine perform better at their jobs if provided with it versus those who are in withdrawal
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by Maursault on Saturday January 28, 2023 @03:07PM (#34561227)
Nicotine has a positive effect on memory. But lower blood oxygen levels and 300+ intentionally added carcinogens to make smoking more addictive probably has considerable adverse effect. People that hate smokers refuse to accept that there is a massive difference between tobacco and what is in cigarettes.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by idonotknowwhy on Saturday January 28, 2023 @08:24PM (#34563931)
I've never smoked, but recently in my 30s started using nicotine gum 3-5 times per week.

It's amazing for improving focus, I get a lot more work done, remember things very well and am more patient with people.

Doesn't seem addictive in this form either, I can go a week without it and no withdrawal.

Also no negative impact on sleep (unlike caffeine)

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by tomcam on Sunday January 29, 2023 @12:19AM (#34565196)
Does it taste bad?
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by corobo on Saturday January 28, 2023 @06:42PM (#34563203)
N=+1 for you on that one.

I quit smoking about 5 years before I was diagnosed with primarily-inattentive ADHD. Diagnosed with insufficient dopamine (uptake?), haha

There was a lot of burnout between the two, incidentally. At one point I'd decided to cut down on the caffeine too, it's almost like I was trying to burn out in hindsight :)

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by bee_rider on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:11AM (#34558746)
You have to smoke the first couple cigarettes to get addicted, though…
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by ineedasername on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:32AM (#34558950)
Socioeconomic factors and other random circumstances are going to impact exposure & normalization of the behavior.

Thought experiment: Take 1000 13 year olds of equal cognitive capacity and place half in peer groups where some smoke half in peer groups where none smoke. I’m guessing there would end up being more of the first 500 that decide to take up the habit.

There is also a difference between cognitive function and reasoning capacity, the later also strongly influenced by socioeconomic factors.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by LudwigNagasena on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:45PM (#34565017)
Yes, but that doesn’t contradict anything that was said.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by abootstrapper on Saturday January 28, 2023 @01:09PM (#34559910)
Easy to reason. You’re young, experimenting, gaining experiences at a rapid rate. A friend asks “Wanna try a cigarette?” “Sure! Why not!? One won’t kill me. I want to see what the fuss is about” then “2 won’t kill me”, “3 won’t kill me”. “I only smoke whith my buddy.” Annnd now you’re physically addicted.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by bluecalm on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:49AM (#34559111)
It's not like inventing most convoluted, complex reasoning to delude yourself on a simple matter is a sign of high cognitive capabilities. Quite the contrary.

An intelligent addict will say: I realize it's terrible but I am losing the battle against the urges every day. Anything more than that smells like low cognitive ability to me.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by rcme on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:50AM (#34559121)
> Cognitive reasoning has nothing to do with addiction.

Citation needed. As the GP pointed out, we have a correlation between addiction and lower cognitive function based on this study.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by guerrilla on Saturday January 28, 2023 @11:56AM (#34559164)
No, there's no citation needed because there are plenty of genius addicts and this study alone proves nothing. At the absolute bare minimum this would have to replicate.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by rcme on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:03PM (#34559236)
> there are plenty of genius addicts.

How many is plenty? And how does that compare to the general population? The claim isn’t that addiction and intelligence are mutually exclusive. Rather, the claim is that intelligence makes addiction less likely.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by guerrilla on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:05PM (#34559259)
Almost all that I care about mid-last century anyway. I mean give me a break, Einstein smoked. If you seriously think addiction has anything to do with intelligence then you've never been addicted and know nothing about it.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by rcme on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:07PM (#34559278)
Here is a study that looks at alcoholics: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6851852/

According to the study, alcoholics had a lower baseline IQ before becoming addicted to alcohol. So that does seem to support that lower cognitive function is somehow linked to becoming an addict.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by themitigating on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:36PM (#34559586)
Could that also mean Einstein might have been even smarter had he not smoked
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by Idk__Throwaway on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:01PM (#34559217)
A genius addict disproves the broader claim no more than does "it was cold today, therefore global warming is a hoax". The rule can be true yet still have notable exceptions throughout history.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by guerrilla on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:06PM (#34559267)
No, you're just intentionally ignoring the word "plenty."
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by Idk__Throwaway on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:10PM (#34559306)
There are "plenty" of cold days as well. Does that disprove global warming?

Not only is "plenty" not an objective quantity, but even an objectively large quantity is irrelevant if it's not a large percentage of the whole. 100k geniuses with addiction problems wouldn't disprove the rule if there are 1b people with addiction problems who are of below average intelligence.

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by themitigating on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:37PM (#34559596)
As he should. Plenty is extremely vague. It definitely means more than 1, probably more than 3, but after that.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by 8note on Saturday January 28, 2023 @01:17PM (#34559988)
It's actually "genius" that's the problem. There aren't enough geniuses to affect a trend on their own.

You could swap "plenty" to "every" and it would still have the same problem

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by irrational on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:09PM (#34559302)
That’s no proof they didn’t suffer cognitive decline. Perhaps Einstein did suffer cognitive decline.
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by themitigating on Saturday January 28, 2023 @12:46PM (#34559685)
I get what you're saying but best not to say "prove it didn't.."

Better to note that since the study isn't claiming every person who smokes suffer cognitive decline showing a person who is a genius and smokes isn't a counter

Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by mistermann on Saturday January 28, 2023 @01:36PM (#34560166)
* * *
Re:Smoking is associated with lower cognitive function in ol... by sneak on Saturday January 28, 2023 @06:51PM (#34563252)
This is called fundamental attribution error.

People do not have some hidden addict/not-addict bit.

Smart people become addicted to things at a lower rate than not-smart people, and smart people become un-addicted to things at a higher rate than not-smart people.