"Less fraud than Theranos" probably isn't the accolade you hang on the mantle.

> Say what you want about Tesla as an enterprise -- they delivered actual cars and fraud, if any actually happened, is far below the Theranos level.

The missing comma before "and fraud" is doing a lot of work in this sentence.

> below the Theranos level

Isn't that just like, an insanely high bar of fraud to meet? How many things in recent memory rise to the level of fraud that Theranos represents?

"Not the most fraudulent fraudsters" just comes across as a damningly weak defense (imo).

The only unique thing about the Theranos fraud is it seem Holmes didn't make an overt moves to profit off the inflated valuation of the company.

I think she genuinely believed in the technology, and thought they just needed more time. Like, she kept pressuring people to work on it, and there were some small advancements in the tech, just not good enough.

I think the worst thing they did was giving those device out to healthcare institutions, when they knew it was inaccurate.

I'm not defending her, she was clearly dangerously delusional, but I think it explains why she didn't behave like a classical con artist/scammer

> How many things in recent memory rise to the level of fraud that Theranos represents?

Mr. SBF from FTX would like to have a word with you.

True, crypto sort of lives in its own world of perpetual ongoing fraud/grift, eh?

FTX was crypto. If you're suprised by fraud there, you haven't been paying attention the last years.

"Well, it's less bad than Theranos" --Tesla in Review, 2023

Lol is this how low our standards have sunk?

How many people did Theranos kill compared to Tesla self driving?

Better comparison would be to VW ~ 1200 premature deaths https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109238_vw-diesel-cheat...

Theranos’s faulty blood tests were used by a couple major insurance companies and at least one state-run medical provider. Over 1.5 million tests were run. I’m sure quite a few people died because they weren’t correctly diagnosed in time for treatment.

Theranos delivered blood test results. Tesla delivered cars.

The problem is that neither delivered those things to the particular qualities promised.

I absolutely agree with you, so we have an upper bound, Elon Musk is facing far less than 12 years in prison. Doesn't anyone want to help us out with a lower bound?

This is interesting context. I'd say a fine of $125,000 - because that is the lowest fine I can find in a brief DDG search of fines levied for materially misleading investors.

Not in market value...

> they delivered actual cars and fraud,

I think your punctuation is doing you a disservice.

They're giving you cars, they're giving you fraud, they're giving you cars with some fraud, what more do you want? You people are so hard to please.

/s

say whatever you want about Theranos, but Hitler killed millions. Say whatever you want about Hitler but Genghis...

Didn't Theranos deliver actual results, just using the Siemens machines instead of their own?