We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different?

They don’t spy on their own citizens but they exchange info with the other spy agencies, so…

> They don’t spy on their own citizens

They sure do; whatever gave you the impression they don’t?

Their mandate doesnt allow it

https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

And yet, part of what Snowden leaked was that they were storing all Americans' data, somehow making the internal legal argument that searching their databases was when it became an actual search, not when they stored that information about Americans in their db.

Yeah, like the siblings I can’t be sure whether you’re joking or not.

In the off chance that you’re not, remember that Gitmo exists so they can do things that their mandates wouldn’t allow.

> Gitmo exists so they can do things that their mandates wouldn’t allow.

No, Gitmo exists so they can do things openly and shamelessly that their mandates wouldn't allow.

Otherwise they can use black sites, or just lie about it.

I know that wasn't a serious comment, saying that federal government agencies follow their mandates and never break the law.

Why break the law to spy on Americans? We give all our private information out to any website that asks and shout out political opinions out into the void on Twitter. Just buy the list of people really interested in fertilizer and not farming from some data broker. Totally legal private sector transaction!

I'm not sure what you are asking or why. See the start of this thread, where the Snowden revelations were mentioned.

You’re right! I meant to say they can’t legally do it but Five Eyes helps them do it legally:

In other words, the NSA can only spy where it is explicitly granted permission to do so by statute. Citizens concerned about surveillance do not have to answer the question, "what law restricts the NSA's spying?" Rather, the government is required to supply an answer to the question "what law permits the NSA to spy?"

Thanks so much for the clarification!

Funniest thing I've read all week.

yes an unaccountable agency that does not have to report to anyone, and can classify all of their actions under national security directives would never violate their mandate. Never..

Let me tell you about this new crypto investment I have...

From what I get, countries ask friendly countries to spy on their behalf.

That's the parallel construction.

It's different in that it doesn't require misuse to get certain data about citizens.

>We have had the Five Eyes and ECHELON for decades. Since before the Snowden revelations. How is this different?

Because the EU is not part of either?

Well one of the countries in the Five Eyes (UK) used to be a part of the EU, until fairly recently.

Note for those in the thread who haven't heard of ECHELON until now (just like me) - it is the exact same list of countries as for the Five Eyes.

> [...] Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, also known as the Five Eyes. [0]

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Maybe this is the reason they started demanding this now, that before they could just ask Britain but because of Brexit, Britain has lost access to European biometric data?

> They don’t spy on their own citizens

Correct, that would be illegal.

When NSA need to spy on an american, they ask GCHQ to do it for them and buy the data. Or buy it off a private company.

That’s what I meant. But the sibling thread somehow devolved into making fun of this idea!

What difference does it make? They already lost it and it fell into the hands of not-so-nice people like the Taliban.