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Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Monday December 26, 2022 @03:54PM (#34141750)
This and the newsfeed not being chronological, or the option to have it chronological being hidden from the user (that’s one of the most recurring question and feature request that internal employees ask, how crazy is that). IMO facebook could really change by creating a subscription and ensuring that people who subscribe are happy enough with the product to keep paying. I think that recenters the incentives towards building something for the user.

Another meta problem is that there seem to be no authoritative product person that can force his/her vision on the product so you get hundreds of visions colliding and fighting for changes. IMO it’s much more valuable to have a coherent vision being enforced for the product, otherwise you get this frankenstein-like collection of apps.

Finally, the fact that HN is such a hater of facebook means that most fb engineers have deserted HN and they’re not reading the excellent ideas and feedback that this community sometimes provide. It’s a shame, because I still completely believe in Facebook as a good product for the world.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by lordnacho on Monday December 26, 2022 @04:11PM (#34141929)
Strangely I just closed my FB tab, and then I landed on this HN story.

I was looking through it, and it started scrolling on its own. Dozens and dozens of stories flashed before me.

Something is really odd, FB has lost a fair bit of my online time recently.

I think you may be right. Just let me pay a few bucks and just show me my friends.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by firecall on Monday December 26, 2022 @05:28PM (#34142613)
I worked out that it doesn't show me my Friends posts as my Friends don't post anything anymore!

Scrolling through Facebook is like walking through an Outlet Mall in a foreign country.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by hdjjhhvvhga on Monday December 26, 2022 @06:10PM (#34142974)
> my Friends don't post anything anymore!

Which is understandable, because FB optimizes for clickability and shows very few posts of those who rarely post (and whose posts really deserve attention imo) so after seeing no reaction from their friends ("are they ignoring me?" - no, FB just decided not to include your post in their feeds) they just gave up.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by sweettea on Monday December 26, 2022 @04:03PM (#34141850)
There is a 'Most Recent' option for several years which provides chronological newsfeed: https://m.facebook.com/help/218728138156311/how-do-i-see-the... . It isn't well known, for sure.
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by Lammy on Monday December 26, 2022 @05:07PM (#34142434)
“You can sort your Feed to see recent posts, but Feed will eventually return to its default setting.”
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by glitchcrab on Monday December 26, 2022 @04:19PM (#34142006)
There is less than a snowball's chance in hell of me paying Meta for the privilege of using a less fucked version of their product. I just actively avoid using it instead and I would wager that my life is better off for it.
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by eastbound on Monday December 26, 2022 @04:54PM (#34142320)
So Twitter has at least the power to charge users, whereas Facebook is inherently so bad that willing users wouldn’t even let Facebook have their CC details…
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung on Monday December 26, 2022 @05:30PM (#34142625)
If both come up with a way to be paid anonymously, and I get to be full owner of my data, then I will consider rejoining and paying.
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @12:24PM (#34151001)
They already have a lot of users CC due to messenger pay, ads listing, etc.
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @12:23PM (#34150984)
Personally I pay for twitter blue and I would pay for a facebook subscription
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by mokash on Monday December 26, 2022 @04:05PM (#34141873)
consider that the goal of facebook is not to build a 'good product for the world'. facebook exists to 1) keep your attention 2) extract as much data as it can 3) make inferences where necessary/possible 4) sell targeted ads.

facebook is an ad business. to that end, they do try to improve the user experience wherever necessary to advance the goals stated above, but that's it.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by TEP_Kim_Il_Sung on Monday December 26, 2022 @05:27PM (#34142606)
5) psychological studies 6) modify your behaviour 7) train AI

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook...

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @12:25PM (#34151020)
It definitely wasn’t for the longest time, it’s only once they started getting revenue from ads that they became this behemoth.
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by Raed667 on Monday December 26, 2022 @04:01PM (#34141834)
The assumption is that chronological feed makes for less engagement, and if your business model is to sell eyeballs, that creates an intensive to hide it and make your KPIs better.
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @12:26PM (#34151043)
They’d get more money from me by making me pay for a subscription
Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by college_physics on Monday December 26, 2022 @05:30PM (#34142624)
> I still completely believe in Facebook as a good product for the world.

Well, people believe the craziest things so you are in good company.

But on the important point on whether facebook is salvageable with a user subscription model: extremely dubious. In some sense adtech has ruined the concept of users paying for a good product and there is poetic justice in that. The magic wand that turns users into product wont turn product into client.

What might work is "social as public or semi-public infrastructure", namely getting cities, companies, states or even countries paying for user accounts of residents, employees etc. as a sort of benefit.

But even in the unlikely scenario facebook would relinquish its residual adtech earnings in favor of a new and less lucrative business model it would likely face stiff competition from newcomers with less historical baggage

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by hdjjhhvvhga on Monday December 26, 2022 @06:07PM (#34142939)
> companies...paying for user accounts

So it seems my company is doing that (it's called "workplace from meta" now) and it's ridiculous as you get the worst of both worlds.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @12:21PM (#34150963)
> Well, people believe the craziest things so you are in good company.

I assume people who say that haven’t had a good experience with fb, but it changed my life when I was younger. I still use to track all my friends across the world.

> In some sense adtech has ruined the concept of users paying for a good product and there is poetic justice in that

Twitter blue

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by ravenstine on Monday December 26, 2022 @07:36PM (#34143514)
The newsfeed or whatever you call it was and probably still is bullshit designed for addiction and little else. I say this because what frustrated me most about it was that posts appearing towards the top of my feed tended to be least 2 days old. It barely mattered how much I tried to keep up with things. Why is this important? Well, there's something about Facebook where if you try to participate in a conversation more than half a day old, significantly fewer people will see what you wrote and you may very well be talking to a wall. That's been my experience, anyway. In contrast, although conversations have a limited viability, I've found that I usually have a shot of having someone see what I wrote even if the original post was from 3 or more days prior.

In short, the newsfeed succeeded in making me always feel left out. Checking it several times every day was never good enough.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by makeitdouble on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @06:06PM (#34155100)
On subscriptions…They tried some paying mechanism already, and I think Linkedin ate their lunch before they had a chance to try other low hanging fruits.

Subscriptions work when either the user makes money from pushing the content, or actively wants the content they’re provided. On the former, boosted spam has already been implemented, ultra targeted ads are another form of this, and stalking users to push private messages to them is already Linkedin’s bread and butter.

On the latter, the issue is of course that the “content” (people’s post) isn’t and won’t be worth paying for in general. I won’t be paying to read my relatives bickering about stupid issues. Random people’s funny takes and viral jokes will be spread on other networks so paying for it won’t make sense either. I’ll subscribe to my favorite novel, manga or tv show, or check a well put newsletter or podcast. None of that has a place on the blue app.

Facebook at this point has a very specific niche, and trying to get out of that niche either puts it in competition with better/less toxic/griftier services, or canibalizes other meta products. In that sense pushing facebook in a completely new direction is a tall order. If a PM had a crazy novel idea, they’d better execute it in Instagram or a completely new product than have it get beaten to death in facebook.

> haters

I was following a bunch of very talented and idea prolific designers and engineers working at facebook. IMO they haven’t left HN or Twitter or the public place. They left facebook instead.

Re:Facebook increased satisfaction and usage by sending fewe... by baby on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @06:29PM (#34155343)
> They left facebook instead

Or were laid off :))

But more seriously I still believe in fb. I still know a lot of great people there.