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Re:Stanford Hates Fun by BuyMyBitcoins on Saturday December 24, 2022 @06:30PM (#34122325)
>” then after college, people will finally start the growing up process at age 22.”

I used to think like this, but then I realize that a good portion of the students who are used to this kind of institutionalized infantilizing internalize that it is proper and necessary.

Then they go on to agitate for similar structures “in the real world”. Something to be especially mindful of is the fact that these students are going to “elite” schools and are therefore likely to end up in management or decision making positions.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by pram on Saturday December 24, 2022 @07:21PM (#34122692)
Ah, so this is how we ended up with SBF and his “oopsie I made a fucky wucky” act.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by bbarnett on Saturday December 24, 2022 @08:37PM (#34123172)
This isn't Seinfeld, and everything doesn't come back to Lloyd Braun.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by andrepd on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:05PM (#34123344)
SBF?
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by taormina on Saturday December 24, 2022 @10:01PM (#34123735)
SBF = Sam Bankman-Fried
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by andrepd on Sunday December 25, 2022 @10:35AM (#34128075)
Thanks!
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by alexvoda on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:05PM (#34130041)
aka. Sam Bank-Fraud
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by chrisco255 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @04:28AM (#34125650)
He's almost 30 though.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by elcritch on Sunday December 25, 2022 @06:12PM (#34132513)
Exactly, they’re saying that SBF and cadre expect to be treated as “kids” with the government/institutions playing nanny. It’s become their worldview coming from elite universities.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by ibeckermayer on Saturday December 24, 2022 @08:38PM (#34123178)
Exactly right. I remember 10 years ago when boomer conservative pundits would talk about how all of these crybaby college students would have something coming for them when they entered “the real world”. Instead, they predictably entered and shaped the institutions to fit their deranged worldview.

See the ultimate example in Yoel Roth (PhD in woke nonsense) acting as the stick-up-the-ass hall monitor for our entire civilization.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by mrtksn on Saturday December 24, 2022 @09:53PM (#34123677)
I think you are giving too much credit to Twitter and an ex manager from it. Shaping the civilization? Oh come on, the whole saga is just a part of a billionaire’s clash in the culture war. Could have played out entirely differently had he bought it for cheaper.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by ibeckermayer on Saturday December 24, 2022 @11:46PM (#34124358)
Yes, Twitter is a key platform where political ideas are exchanged, particularly for politically active / elite, and Roth was responsible for censoring it on the basis of his own political bias and on behalf of the FBI, CIA, and other federal government agencies
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by fortuna86 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:35AM (#34124974)
There's no evidence he acted on personal bias, and the US government never asked or told Twitter to do anything.

Other than that, your knowledge of current events is spot on.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by fourthark on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:46AM (#34125022)
Huh? This is not asking or telling? Is it suggesting at least?

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/12/22/how-twitter-hid...

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by fortuna86 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:10PM (#34129549)
Of all the "revelations" of the Twitter Files (mostly recapping the interactions that were already publicly known), preventing DoD run accounts from being marked as spam is the closest thing to an actual scandal. But

1. These accounts weren't promoted, they were just protected from being "deranked".

2. Twitter and Meta suspended most of these accounts, and made public that they had done so. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/19/us/politics/pentagon-soci...

So the entirely of this "scandal" is that Twitter agreed to shield these accounts from being attacked themselves (mass labeled as spam) - which as it turns out wasn't needed because according to their own records, these accounts received 1-2 impressions per post. In other words, no one even saw them.

Then Twitter banned them and pubicaly fingered them.

Should Twitter have done this? No. Is it proof of an engine of Twitter/US Gov cooperation to promote certain things and silence others? No.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by astrange on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:00AM (#34125073)
The US government does tell Twitter to do things, the same way they tell you to do things, by passing laws saying not to murder people or have CSAM on your website. That is what happened here.

Sometimes individual government employees report posts, the same way you can; this doesn’t have the force of law and you can ignore them.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by ibeckermayer on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:13AM (#34125118)
You sarcastically accuse me of not being up to speed on current events, but clearly you haven’t read (or at least haven’t comprehended) the multi part “Twitter Files” releases that indeed show that

1) Twitter censorship often took place at the discretion of employees, including Yoel Roth

2) The FBI was in consistent contact with Roth and co, directing them on which topics and individuals to censor

3) the CIA also had representatives who met with Twitter to help arrange censorship.

Best to catch up on the latest breaking news before wading into these discussions. Im sure you’d agree that mis, dis, and malinformation are extremely dangerous to our democracy!

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by fortuna86 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:17PM (#34129617)
1. Ultimate people employed by Twitter had to make calls on what content violated their rules. Is this surprising to you, did you assume machines did this?

2. There was no direction. FBI pointed out content that filed Twitter's rules (NOT its rules), and Twitter sometimes took action and sometimes didn't, at their own discretion.

3. Communications yes, "arrange censorship" no. See above.

I get that the "Twitter Files" is a perfectly engineered PR campaign to convince conservatives of the one thing they believed all along "they are censoring us!". Well, you are half right. "They" meaning Twitter did take repeated actions against right wing accounts for breaking its rules against harassment, election/public health misinfo, and general awfulness. That's true. But the US government never demanded or received any action.

If you need a reminder about what free speech actually protects (hint: it's not the consequences of being an awful person online). https://xkcd.com/1357/

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by pas on Saturday December 24, 2022 @10:23PM (#34123875)
could you detail a bit who Yoel Roth is and that example? (I see he is/was some guy at twitter, in the/some Safety group.) what's his woke view that he forced/attempted-to-force on twitter?)
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by giardini on Saturday December 24, 2022 @10:33PM (#34123937)
Nice try, Yoel!
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by ibeckermayer on Saturday December 24, 2022 @11:48PM (#34124373)
He was head of the government censorship wing of Twitter, carrying out censorship on behalf of his preferred political ideology as well as the FBI, CIA, and other politically aligned federal government agencies
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by astrange on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:58AM (#34125068)
Note the posts being censored here were child porn and pictures of Hunter Biden’s penis. I agree the US government wants you to censor that.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by ibeckermayer on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:21AM (#34125147)
Sounds like you’ve been mislead about both the relevant contents of Hunters’ laptop (“10% for the big guy”) as well as the content that the FBI and CIA were directing Twitter employees to censor. The best way to get better educated on the topic would be to read the Twitter Files releases yourself.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by astrange on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:28AM (#34125179)
I did. Your problem is you read them without noticing the parts Taibbi was lying about ;)

The part where he mentioned posts being deleted without saying what they were for instance - you can look all those up on archive.org. They’re penises. The part today about the CIA is just nonsense.

Similarly, the laptop story was suppressed by Trump’s FBI because it sounds worse when you post vague insinuations about it then if you saw the real thing, an obvious fake[1]. You can look up the original “reporting” on the archive too - it comes from Guo Wengui, a Chinese billionaire friend of Giuliani, and it’s full of lurid writing about, again, the size of his penis[2] and claims it’s full of child porn.

[1] https://twitter.com/revhowardarson/status/159983985145688883...

[2] https://twitter.com/beijingpalmer/status/1325259822829334535

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by BuyMyBitcoins on Sunday December 25, 2022 @05:10AM (#34125863)
>”Your problem is you read them without noticing the parts Taibbi was lying about ;)”

Including the ;) is unnecessary and makes this post come across in a really condescending way.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by astrange on Sunday December 25, 2022 @09:50AM (#34127674)
Seemed a bit too robotic with just a period. Topic’s kind of heavy you know.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by BuyMyBitcoins on Sunday December 25, 2022 @02:07PM (#34130086)
It is, but I also feel like it is counterproductive to the message you are trying to communicate. The rest of the post is otherwise articulate and sourced.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by qualudeheart on Sunday December 25, 2022 @04:32AM (#34125665)
Hunter biden revenge porn bad
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by astrange on Sunday December 25, 2022 @08:08AM (#34126923)
In fact, it’s illegal! Whether it’s bad or not isn’t part of the decision tree.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by fortuna86 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:34AM (#34124969)
You seem to have no idea what Yoel Roth's job was.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by quadrifoliate on Saturday December 24, 2022 @08:58PM (#34123304)
> Something to be especially mindful of is the fact that these students are going to “elite” schools and are therefore likely to end up in management or decision making positions.

Well, they only do because people, probably including yourself recruit them preferentially. They don't magically end up in these positions.

Disagree? Make sure you exclude graduates from the top 20 universities in the US in your next recruiting event.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by beardedwizard on Saturday December 24, 2022 @11:14PM (#34124184)
Why does everyone blame the administrators as if students play no part? Inclusion, diversity, and psychological safety are strong values with the current generation of college students (gen z) and are building upon ideas from previous generations (millennials).

The parents of millennials (boomers) have been lamenting their creation for years already.

America created and raised these children and now seems to have some remorse about it, and history continues to repeat itself.

Maybe the dominant culture is leaving some folks behind.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by slowmovintarget on Saturday December 24, 2022 @11:40PM (#34124322)
Leftist faculty educated students this way. America created these children, but leftist activists raised them, because parents were too busy working through their own self-fulfillment woes.

It's a cultural shift that seems crafted:

Self-fulfillment -> follow your heart -> feelings first -> feelings only.

We have a whole generation of people who excuse bad behavior and failure with "I was having a hard time, I have to have my support peacock on the plane." None of these people heard "No" enough as a child.

There's value in teaching children to ignore name-calling. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me." This is what we used to teach. People can be mean, don't let it affect you. Show grit, find it in yourself to continue anyway, and you'll succeed.

Now? Achieve power by exploring your victim-hood and collapse in shaking outrage because someone disagreed with you.

We need to start fixing this, and clearing these piles of frivolous administrators from the staff at universities would be a great start.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by beardedwizard on Saturday December 24, 2022 @11:54PM (#34124403)
Isn't that largely because the most marginalized groups started speaking up, and started being heard? Hasn't it progressed from there?

I think it's fair to say LGBTQ, women and brown folks are being hurt in tangible ways by dominant language (words can in fact hurt when they influence generations of behavior), and like most progress there seem to be some who are experiencing downsides now that things are changing.

Who decides who has sour grapes?

Were these bureaucrats just waiting in the wings for an excuse to pounce with regressive policy?

Blaming the staff without examining the broader cultural shift seems as bad as an emotional support peacock.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by slowmovintarget on Sunday December 25, 2022 @12:44AM (#34124683)
The staff is using "inclusiveness" as the political cudgel it was intended to be. The people exercising power are doing so on behalf of the so-called marginalized with no evidence that the measures they're taking are beneficial in any way.

Words cannot harm you. Actions harm. Please stop perpetuating that nonsense.

Name-calling or epithet-hurling has not hurt anyone in a tangible way (tangible means "touchable" something physical). Bias, and discrimination based on bias or prejudice does cause economic and sometimes physical harm. It is proper behavior we need to teach, not hypersensitivity to phrasing.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by beardedwizard on Sunday December 25, 2022 @09:09AM (#34127341)
This is it. Dangerous allyship... but I still think you aren't giving words and behaviors they lead to enough credit - the odds of the participants of this thread being in a marginalized group (myself included) are low, no language and set of behaviors systemically oppresses us.

I worry we throw the marginalized baby out with the bath water in discussions like this.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by elcritch on Sunday December 25, 2022 @06:38PM (#34132725)
I agree with you that words do have power and meaning, but disagree with the current zeitgeist approach of censorship.

It causes far more harm on average than any minimal help it does in some cases. There’s substantial active harm in the amount of gaslighting and ill conceived redefinition of words going on. It’s exactly the sort of whitewashing of thought that’d lead to the world found in The Giver.

> throw out the marginalized baby

I think that’s just an updated version of the “white mans burden” — the white man has a burden to take care of the poor colored people.

The real way to change such things is over time by hard work and engagement. Dismantling actually oppressive systems in financial systems and laws. Giving opportunities not outcomes. Reducing things like inflation which disproportionately affects poorer people. And a hundred other things, all of which were working over the last decades with improvements in almost every metric for marginalized groups. Still lots of real work left.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by quanticle on Sunday December 25, 2022 @01:21AM (#34124912)

    Were these bureaucrats just waiting in the wings for an excuse to pounce
    with regressive policy?
Yes. American culture has always been a tug of war between puritanical norms and libertine norms, and we're seeing the latest mutation of the puritans taking over. It doesn't seem that way, because this iteration of the puritans have co-opted the language of the libertines, but if these university administrators were transported back in time, they'd be enforcing Prohibition laws with equal zeal. Transported further back in time, they'd be organizing the expulsion of Catholics, Quakers and other "heretical" religious sects. There is, and always has been, a large segment of America which looks at the average frat kegger the same that a Taliban mullah looks at a collection of unveiled women. They hate fun, and, given a chance, they will do their utmost to banish it. And if fun can't be banished, it will be regulated into submission.

Of course, they don't do this for themselves. No, of course not. They do it to improve the moral worth of the people. Their zealotry is driven by the purest of intentions.

    Who decides who has sour grapes?
The ones who have placed themselves in a position to define which grapes are or are not sour: the aforementioned bureaucrats.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by scatters on Sunday December 25, 2022 @08:54AM (#34127235)
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by cs702 on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @09:30AM (#34148949)
This reminds me of an old saying:

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by vagrantJin on Monday December 26, 2022 @03:02AM (#34135708)
I enjoyed reading this. It brings a nice perspective on the issue which is hardly talked about.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by cs702 on Tuesday December 27, 2022 @09:24AM (#34148878)
> ...we're seeing the latest mutation of the puritans taking over. It doesn't seem that way, because this iteration of the puritans have co-opted the language of the libertines, but if these university administrators were transported back in time, they'd be enforcing Prohibition laws with equal zeal. Transported further back in time, they'd be organizing the expulsion of Catholics, Quakers and other "heretical" religious sects...

This rings true to me, and I find it very insightful. Thank you for writing it.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by clnq on Sunday December 25, 2022 @12:08AM (#34124473)
I agree with this sentiment a lot. Many people could benefit from understanding that a whole world of hard facts exists outside of their feelings.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by nullsense on Sunday December 25, 2022 @06:27AM (#34126294)
There also appears to be a whole world of alternative facts.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by ngc248 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @05:00AM (#34125805)
>> Self-fulfillment -> follow your heart -> feelings first -> feelings only.

This is it. This sentence is 100% correct.

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by shkkmo on Saturday December 24, 2022 @11:27PM (#34124254)
The problem is not valuing inclusion, diversity and psychological safety. Those are just the excuses used by bureaucrats to justify removing autonomy. You can promote those values without requiring people to preregister attendees for every party.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by bruce511 on Sunday December 25, 2022 @12:26AM (#34124568)
>> the parents of millennials (boomers)

OI. The parents of the millenials are the X-gens mate.

Sometimes known as the lost generation, or latch-key-kids etc.

The boomers are _our_ parents! And don't you forget it.

Now, get off my lawn :)

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by fsckboy on Sunday December 25, 2022 @12:46AM (#34124694)
no, the millenials are a very large group because their parents were an even larger group, the boomers.
Re:Stanford Hates Fun by saghm on Sunday December 25, 2022 @12:54AM (#34124746)
> OI. The parents of the millennials are the X-gens mate.

Usually, yes, but not always! I'm 29 (born in 1993), which I think is pretty clearly in the range of millennial (definitions vary, and I've seen cutoffs anywhere between 1994 and 1997, but I don't think anyone would put me in Gen Z by any reasonable stretch of the imagination). My parents were born in late 1958 and early 1959, which is probably not within the most common definition of boomer, but I've met other people my age with parents born a few years before mine. I don't think anyone would consider someone born in, say, 1955, to be Gen X, and having a kid at 39 in 1994 would have been somewhat unusual but not really that crazy (especially if the other parent happened to be a few years younger).

If that still doesn't convince you, I don't think I have anything else I could say, but maybe reading this comic might provide a compelling argument: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOdaSW2XUAE1Pxm?format=png&name=...

Re:Stanford Hates Fun by neltnerb on Sunday December 25, 2022 @04:59AM (#34125803)
I am an old millennial (39), both of my parents are square in the middle of boomer, and had me when they were 23 (they are in their early 60s now, so born at the tail end of the boomers). Still, it's not like they had me at 35, they were 23 and still entirely skipped gen X. They'd could have been born even earlier and had me later in life without much risk.

I get where you're coming from but I think maybe relax a bit there...