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Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by bluedino on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:02PM (#34076488)
<insert food desert>

But you see people with SNAP pushing around carts full of things that aren't eggs and beans and potatoes... and why would they? The maximum monthly benefit for a family of 4 is $939/month, you can buy whatever you want with that.

<insert excuse that poor people can't cook or don't have time or ...>

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by KerrAvon on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:19PM (#34076575)
The most corrosive idea in our society is the notion that someone somewhere is getting slightly more than they deserve, just slightly more than you think they earned through their god-given talents, and that it’s therefore worth trying to correct at huge expense, because we certainly can’t have that tiny bit of unfairness in the universe.

And the correction, when applied, is always to the detriment of a huge number of other people who actually needed the help.

This is how we get means-testing, SALT caps, and bad immigration law. We have got to be more humane than this.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by ramesh31 on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:27PM (#34076639)
>The most corrosive idea in our society is the notion that someone somewhere is getting slightly more than they deserve, just slightly more than you think they earned through their god-given talents, and that it’s therefore worth trying to correct at huge expense, because we certainly can’t have that tiny bit of unfairness in the universe.

Maybe. But this is how America works. We wont let you starve to death. If you're truly physically disabled, we won't leave you to die. But beyond that it's up to you. And in exchange, what's "up to you" is limitless and celebrated and compensated endlessly. Other societies make this tradeoff in a different direction. But I'm happy there's at least one place on earth that doesn't.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by trentgreene on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:40PM (#34076731)
The last number I’d heard was that around 100/year starve to death in the US, but I suspect that number is higher when including deaths from folks who incur fatal health conditions from insufficient nutrition.
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by bruce511 on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:47PM (#34076776)
>> But beyond that it's up to you

It's up to you, but please be aware that you will be playing a rigged game.

In this game, those with money will be competing with you. They will also make the rules. In most situations they will also be referee.

Therefore please make every effort to be born into at least some money. That is, by far, your best chance of success.

Of course we are not heartless. We let a tiny number of previously poor people rise up to serve as both inspiration, and example to the rest. This helps re-enforce the idea that you too can rise up if you just worked "a little bit harder."

Unfortunately we cannot raise the standard of living for everyone - since most of you simply don't deserve it. Plus your cheap labour is necessary for our current comfort levels.

But I sleep well at night since my life is completely deserved, clearly we all had the same opportunities, I just worked harder than you did.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by throwaway6734 on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @01:40AM (#34077427)
>Unfortunately we cannot raise the standard of living for everyone

The standard of living has been rising constantly throughout American history

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by bruce511 on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @01:56AM (#34077507)
Indeed, as it has been doing globally. There's no doubt that a pauper today lives like a king compared to just a couple centuries ago.

Perhaps by statement is better said as "we can't raise the standard at the same rate for everyone."

This isn't a universal rule though. Many countries have raised the standards of the poor in proportion to the rich. But you'll see fewer billionaire yachts or private jets in those places too.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by thebradbain on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @01:30AM (#34077378)
> We wont let you starve to death.

Yes you will

> If you're truly physically disabled, we won't leave you to die.

Yes you will

Do you really think that as a nation that lacks so much empathy for the poor, THAT’S where we suddenly realize someone’s humanity? No, in fact if someone is at this point, most Americans would probably not even notice (and some amount would likely celebrate) their passing. If the safety net lets someone fall this far, why would it catch them now?

Just think of the blind eye we turn to people experiencing homelessness— as if their neighbors aren’t already wishing them harm while sipping a bottle of wine with their family and friends during their holiday dinner.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by UncleEntity on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @03:56AM (#34078236)
You seriously have no clue how this stuff really works.

I used to live in downtown Phoenix and I’d have people trying to feed me when I was just riding my bike random places. Like, I’d be half a block away and they’d shout out “hey, man, you hungry?” And this is just people who would roam around looking for people to help not counting the permanent places that served food on a regular basis.

If you’re willing to accept help ‘merica has enough to go around but you have to show up to the shelters sober and have to at least put in the barest minimum of effort to maybe, just maybe, appear to be trying to improve your lot in life.

I spent nine years driving a cab and a big chunk of that job was hauling people to/from medical appointments because they didn’t have transportation (or couldn’t afford to drive) and the state was paying for their medical care. Once Uber/Lyft came to town that’s pretty much all I did and I kept pretty busy.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by vpilcx on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @03:14AM (#34078001)
> We wont let you starve to death. If you're truly physically disabled, we won't leave you to die.

Unless you're a diabetic, then fuck you. Die.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by trentgreene on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:19PM (#34076580)
I mean —- have you been poor? I can say when my mom and I were dirt poor, we literally didn’t have the time. My mom didn’t take benefits mainly due to pride, but all the foods you mention were way out of her time / price bucket
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by bluedino on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:26PM (#34076625)
What time/price bucket do bananas fall in?
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by trentgreene on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:34PM (#34076686)
Oh, bananas are god tier — I probably ate 2-3 a day for years. But you can’t live off them. 5+ Bananas a day really made me feel sick during some lean times. Nutritionally also pretty poor for sustenance, no fat or protein, and they digest very quickly.
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by ramesh31 on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:32PM (#34076672)
> What time/price bucket do bananas fall in?

Somewhere well below frozen burritos and pizzas: https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by trentgreene on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:36PM (#34076704)
True, banana + frozen burritos / pizza for protein and fat are an excellent combo in this situation
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by HarryHirsch on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:21PM (#34076592)
Just saying - when you work 60 hours/week you really don't have time to cook. Cooking is not an option. Not cooking is not out of choice.
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by carrolldunham on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:42PM (#34076739)
pouring water and olive oil into some self-raising wholemeal flour and throwing it on a hot pan to make naans (90 seconds to cook) twice a day, comes in under $1/day and 30min/day with washup. for one person
Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by bruce511 on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @12:00AM (#34076851)
You are both right.

Cooking takes time. Working too many hours (for good reasons) robs you of that time. Cooking adds other time-consumers, shopping, washing up and so on.

Equally, once you have a skill set, cooking doesn't need to take a lot of time. If you are lucky you learned to cook growing up, or if you have the time you can learn to cook as an adult.

While your nan breads are perhaps not the best example of quick cooking (flour isn't necessarily the best starting point) it's true that stir-frying some veggies, or anything with eggs etc can be done in a couple minutes.

But cooking quickly takes skills, and practice, and acquiring those takes time.

As an anecdote we required our children to learn to cook young, and by 13 cook a regular meal for the family once a week. Ultimately some enjoyed the process more than others, but all are able to feed themselves quickly, and with little effort. If I have one bit of useful advice it us to encourage kids to learn how to cook for themselves, and for others. And yes, alas, I'm aware of the cost in money and time in doing that.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by malandrew on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @12:03AM (#34076870)
I work 60 hours a week and cook most days.

Where it gets hard is over 70 hours a week.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by fzeroracer on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @02:10AM (#34077583)
You're an engineer at Google working 60h weeks meaning either Google is scamming you or you're scamming yourself.

And more importantly, you and I as engineers are going to operate in drastically different mental spaces than someone that has to work 60h weeks solely to survive. Someone that needs to work between multiple jobs, or deal with physically intensive jobs or customer facing jobs are not going to able to turn off after work as easily.

My parents were fishermen and would spend way more than that out in the bay due to the necessities of the job. When you're done with that work, after hauling bait and working on the boat you have zero energy to do much else afterwards.

Re:The Cost of Being Poor: Why It Costs So Much to Be Poor i... by atom058 on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @12:20PM (#34083484)
I believe the focus on comparing 'hours worked' is very damaging to our culture. The effect is that employment becomes a competition, where 'they who works the most hours are the most valuable/noble'.

In reality people who work more than the standard working hours (40) are effectively undercutting everyone else in terms of price per hour worked. Working more hours for the same pay is not something to be proud about; it is an attack on you colleagues. The overwork behaviour causes increased competition, where everybody's expected work hours will silently increase ('why don't you work as hard as they are'). The employer will of course be happy, because they get a better deal. Giving away your time for free shouldn't be something honorable.

It's a bit different if you are getting compensated for the extra hours, e.g. if you are the founder of the company, or are getting good overtime pay. But I still think there needs to be moderation.

Emolyees should be working less than they are today, not more. 40 hours is already too much to have a balanced life. I think a more reasonable level would be somewhere around 4x7 = 28 hours per week. But instead of moving an inch towards that level, our societies have gone in the other direction, where unpaid overtime is the norm.

I hope we can see a attitude change about work / overwork in my lifetime. But I'm not very optimistic about that.