News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by yamtaddle on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @03:12PM (#34071814)
Can you even imagine how relaxing it would be to have the same interface to your systems, every day, with all the parts in one physical location and never moving? Learn it once, then nothing changes for years and years, or if it does it's usually adding on, not replacing or re-arranging existing stuff? Man, that would be nice.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by Wistar on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @03:26PM (#34072011)
I used to be an editor in a dedicated online digital video suite. All real time and all dedicated controls. GVG Kadenza, Abekas and Accom digital disk recorders, D1 and digi-beta, GVG 141 edit controller. Rarely even looked at the controls, could adjust two or more parameters simultaneously—super important, especially when the parameters affected each other as they were adjusted. Muscle memory ruled—like playing a piano. Plus the physical motion, flying through the settings, looked impressive to the clients and, at those rates which could reach several hundred dollars an hour, that performance, the show, was important.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by RedShift1 on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @03:37PM (#34072156)
Use boring software. Software that releases every few months instead of weeks or even days. Software that is well documented and has an active supportive community.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by yamtaddle on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @04:01PM (#34072482)
Works when you're picking the software. Less so in most companies where you spend 75% of your time interacting with half-broken, constantly-changing, barely-interoperable programs and web-services that someone else chose.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by topspin on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @10:03PM (#34076178)
I've had an experience like this recently in Java. One of the most storied and heinous areas of Java development: so-called "web services." This is the whole SOAP+WSDL hell that did incalculable damage to the Java language and can be credited with the rise of REST as a sane alternative.

I had a system I needed to integrate into a workflow engine. I looked at the available interfaces and, noticing that the SOAP API was the most feature complete of the bunch, I figured I'd give it a try.

Guess what; no one is iterating on this stuff anymore. The standards specifications quit changing years ago so the targets aren't moving. The libraries are feature complete, solid and efficient and only infrequent bug fixes are appearing now. It works wonderfully.

So now you can grab a WSDL, stick on the resource path, add a code generation step to the build and it all "just works." The endless backflips and somersaults it took to get this stuff working back in the day has been evolved out of the stack and we're left with simple, type-safe RPC over HTTP, which is all most people ever really wanted.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by eitland on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:00PM (#34076481)
I joked recently that these days, if you see a XML file in a project it means there is a higher probability that the project is good.

It means someone of those who make it is capable of making pragmatic decisions.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by geodel on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @12:07AM (#34076890)
Agree. With yaml infested cloud native asshatery everywhere, the xml or simple properties file based project look very decent to me.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by RedShift1 on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @02:21AM (#34077640)
I've been a programmer long enough to see things being reinvented over and over again, just under a different name or written in a different language, or now it's "cloud native" and "serverless" and "ready for microservices". The longer I witness this cycle of reinvention the more annoyed I become by it. It's crazy to think that all the work we did in the 80's, 90's and 00's is just thrown away like that, only for those same things to be reinvented and implemented from scratch again with all the experience from the previous iteration lost. Programmers seem to behave much more like the fashion industry than anything else.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by turtledragonfly on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @03:39PM (#34072196)
Agreed. Typing this with Vim (:
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by rthnbgrredf on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @03:47PM (#34072296)
Learn vi/vim/nvim. Interface hasn't changed much since 1976 (first version of vi).
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by bmitc on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @04:04PM (#34072530)
I think a modal editor is somewhat at odds with an HMI consisting of dedicated, physical controls.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by codemac on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @06:00PM (#34074053)
nomodes.com
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by neilv on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @04:15PM (#34072683)
Especially if the interface was designed for high performance (unlike most UX today).

One of my favorite was when I spent years starting to learn photojournalism on the side: the mechanics of using a camera is only a small part of it (it's mostly about understanding and conveying a story), but even at my student/amater level, the muscle memory with pro DSLR and lenses was crazy-effective.

I even got a shot that happened only in an instant, unexpected, perceived in my peripheral vision, and the right camera body (I had 2 hanging from shoulders) was suddenly in my hands, viewfinder to my eye, aimed, zoomed in with my 70-200 focal length ring, focused (I might've even used the wheel to select which AF focus point, before half-pressing the shutter button), and snapped-- without consciously intending to do any of those things, so it all seemed to be instantaneous, and I got the shot of something as it was falling.

Had I only had a touchscreen phone/camera or a bottom-end DSLR (on which some brands intentionally cripple the UI, to avoid cannibalizing pro gear sales), I would've looked very dumb as I didn't get the shot.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by smm11 on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @05:06PM (#34073369)
f8 and be there.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by neilv on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @06:09PM (#34074150)
For the "f/8 and be there" philosophy of getting a usable shot at all, I agree with the simplicity of having a sensible default, and of course with the importance of being where the story is. In the digital era, and as a student/amateur who often kept the strobe in the bag, I'd modify that to "f/4 and be there".

f/4 with autofocus, aperture-priority automatic exposure, ISO 400 gave great images, with faster exposure (less likely to have motion blur when I didn't want it, and faster bursts, more forgiving of lower light) and shallower depth-of-field (for making the subject pop).

(I think of f/8 as being near hyperfocal distance for having anything in field of view in focus, and probably near an image quality sweet spot of the lens, but also often being slow for non-studio use unless you were using a strobe.)

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by CWuestefeld on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @08:19PM (#34075465)
I'd modify that to "f/4 and be there".

Sure, because my micro 4/3 sensor has a crop factor of 2:1, so when I set to f4, I'm effectively getting a 35mm f8.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by cat_plus_plus on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @02:13AM (#34077600)
Said someone who only takes pictures in broad daylight. Even with modern tech and 100 watt light bulbs, you get enough motion blur and/or noise to ruin most shots indoors. With film that maxed out at ISO 800 and enlarger as the only postprocessing tool, forget it.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by Acutulus on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @05:15PM (#34073481)
I'm in full agreement with you about the tactility benefits with a physical camera versus a smartphone.

I'm in a phase of life where I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing or even what I'm very good at. But I do have a camera and I can write passable amounts of code, so I've been preparing a website to host my work while I strongarm friends and family into taking pictures with me. Most of them have a nice phone with a good camera and so we often end up talking about what the benefits are of a dedicated set of camera hardware versus using a phone's camera. I like those discussions because it makes me think critically about my camera and why I'm using it.

The physical inputs and muscle-memory laden experience is what I've kept relying on as justification and it's nice to hear I'm not the only one. For those of us who have used guns, it almost feels like holding a rifle. The entire process is subconscious and the more I use it the faster I become, as well as the more finely-tuned I can set up the camera during that subconscious movement. It equips me to image things that, if constrained by time or scene stability, I straight up would not be able to do with a phone camera.

There's also the social benefit that comes with it. I've found that when I'm using my camera and rapidly fiddling with controls and settings, people around me get the sense that I am a professional (I'm not) who knows what he is doing (I don't). "Everyone" has a phone so those "every" are common to see holding up a flat slab to a scene but dedicated camera users are increasingly rare. My tools and my physical control over them grants me this silly air of authority. And honestly that authority presents me with fresh opportunities for impromptu shots; just recently I was at a live music event and started wandering into places and standing on things to get the angles I wanted. Nobody said a word to me, nor did I think twice about doing it. We all kind of understood, "that guy has a camera and he's using it well. I suppose we should let him work". Kind of interesting.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by vladvasiliu on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @03:03AM (#34077915)
> rapidly fiddling with controls and settings

I don't know about "professional", but what I've also found is that if you want someone to hold a pose, they're much less likely to tire and stop if you take ages to fiddle with your smartphone.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by sbaiddn on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @08:30PM (#34075547)
By law a lot of motorcycle controls are standardized both to ensure sane controls (think suicide clutch) as well as standardization (1 down 4 up).

Riding a motorcycle involves all four of your limbs having a dedicated control (left arm clutch; right arm throttle and front break; left leg shifter; right leg rear break).

It is so satisfying having your body operate all of these controls without a conscious thought.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by midoridensha on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @09:56PM (#34076135)
That's ridiculous and antiquated. They need to redesign it so that you need to use a touchscreen menu system to operate the brakes and gear changes.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by aix1 on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @12:39AM (#34077091)
And don't forget unattended OTA firmware updates, security patches (are you really going to ride an insecure motorbike?!) and so on.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by midoridensha on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @01:17AM (#34077307)
Exactly, these are all great things that we should be happy to have. Why would you prefer some clunky, old-fashioned mechanical controls on your motorbike instead of a slick, modern touchscreen that sometimes freezes up while it does a forced OTA update, even though you're driving in heavy traffic?
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by cagenut on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @10:29PM (#34076298)
Do you happen to know if electric motorcycles are meaningfully diverging on these? Like how many EVs adopted single-pedal driving, are there e-motorcycle analogues?
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by jliptzin on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @10:45PM (#34076400)
There’s still 2 pedals, the only difference is lifting off the accelerator engages the generator, which can be disabled.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by vladvasiliu on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @03:01AM (#34077897)
I've never actually ridden any, but what I see is two directions.

Smaller ones (think 125cc equivalent or less) seem to have adopted the scooter layout, ie no pedal, only hand levers, possibly reversed (left front, right rear). I see a lot of those around Paris: https://vmotosoco.fr/gammes/tcwanderer

"Normal" ones, like Zero, seem to have stuck with the classic layout: front brake on the right-hand lever, rear brake on the right foot. https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb/model/zero-sr

I would absolutely hate to have those changes. As GP says, it's paramount to not have to think about the controls on a motorcycle. I usually ride a "normal" motorbike, but I was given a scooter once when I took mine in for service. The weird brake lever layout (left front, riht rear) was surprising. "Fortunately", the brakes had next to no bite, so nothing bad happened when I squeezed the clutch, figuring I should change gears...

Anecdotally, for a somewhat "half-way model", Honda has ICE DCT models, which are normal motorcycles, but with robotized and automatic gearbox and clutches. They're using the classic layout, but, like with the Zero, there's no lever on the left hand (sometimes there's a parking brake, but the lever is way out), and no pedal for the left foot.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by nikau on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @09:13PM (#34075880)
> Especially if the interface was designed for high performance (unlike most UX today).

Analogue gauges are amazing for real-time feedback, for example my espresso machine needle will oscillate wildly at the vibratory pump frequency if i don'tnt have the grind setting quite right. A digital sensor and display would average it out and be nowhere near as useful.

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by trap_goes_hot on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @04:27PM (#34072832)
I can see it working for certain industries, but overall we need digital systems too. I work in manufacturing (biotech); everything we do uses a automated recipe, and there are only a handful of systems where we need an operator to directly interact with a UI to make stuff happen.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by robofanatic on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @04:35PM (#34072937)
> not replacing or re-arranging existing stuff? Man, that would be nice.

I've met some people who miss those phones with "bottom 40%", that is pre-iphone era phones with hard coded plastic buttons.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/want-new-iphone-blame-steve-j...

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by grishka on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @05:01AM (#34078692)
I've been using touchscreen phones since 2009. Typing text on one is still a frustrating experience for me.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by closeparen on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @05:15PM (#34073491)
Boring is best where the risk of nuclear meltdown is concerned, but I would expect operating the same system every day for years to be pretty boring vs. engineering changes to systems.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by waynesonfire on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @05:52PM (#34073964)
whatever would the bored 10x'er do! But of course, invent the LCD touchscreen. Now, excuse me while I throw up.
Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by ehnto on Tuesday December 20, 2022 @11:59PM (#34076844)
One if the aspects I loved about flying more basic planes. You can master the controls, and then you just know that interface forever.

Another reason is that it is discrete, and feedback is obvious. I flip a switch, it goes thonk, and it is in a new physical state. This is where I think modern UX fails the most often. Did I click it? Did it work? Was that a button at all? Is this toggle on or off?

Re:A collection of Soviet control rooms by berniedurfee on Wednesday December 21, 2022 @08:32AM (#34080486)
I was just thinking the same thing! It seems so peaceful. Now it’s a bunch of flat panel screens with brash colors and a flood of information, animation and menu diving.

AWS should sell physical control panels. This knob is for memory, that one is for CPU. Hit that button to scale up… no not that one!!

Music synthesizers are an example. People still flock to hardware synths even though software is as good sonically and way more flexible. Limitations are good. Twisting knobs is satisfying.