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Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by thepasswordis on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:01AM (#33968924)
>like Musk and SBF

I‘m sorry, but what?

Just to give some perspective that I don’t think HN really gets: most of my friends have increased their twitter usage.

If you aren’t aware, whatever the team did there a few days ago really has appeared to cut bots down to almost 0.

SBF is an [alleged] criminal who has [allegedly] defrauded people of billions of dollars, and will likely be spending a substantial amount of time in prison for it.

These things aren’t the same. A restaurant changing their menu to suit a larger audience is not “hubris” simply because it no longer caters to you.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by SilverBirch on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:13AM (#33969094)
Just for reference what Musk did is just blocked half the mobile carriers in emerging markets, kneecapping their ability to grow Twitter in those countries whilst only temporarily tamping down on bots. The bots will be back, the users won't.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by blululu on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:25AM (#33969255)
Honest question: are low income users viable for an ad supported platform? As it is I think only North American online ads actually make decent money, though perhaps European and Asian ad markets also deliver value close to break even. It is all an investment in the future. The last 15 years have had a belief that more users means more money but this might be thinking that all users are the same when some are much more valuable than others.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by SilverBirch on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:34AM (#33969375)
Meta makes revenues of about $15Bn in US & Canada, $8Bn in the EU and $10Boutside of EU & US/Canada each year. So it's clearly not nothing, and it's not like Twitter can afford to be picky about where it makes money.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by CamelCaseName on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @10:30AM (#33970122)
Meta is insanely deep in those countries outside the EU/US/CA though.

As in, they are "the" internet for users who get it for free on their mobile plans and everything else costs exorbitant amounts of money.

I don't quite think Elon could do that, unless Starlink really takes off I suppose.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by AmericanChopper on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @04:56PM (#33976518)
> it's not like Twitter can afford to be picky about where it makes money.

Being picky about where you make your money is absolutely essential for most businesses. Every dollar in revenue costs some amount of money to generate, and choosing the right market segments to invest that money in is a foundational part of a business plan.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by blululu on Thursday December 15, 2022 @10:07AM (#34000627)
Revenue is not profit. It costs money to serve content. The EU has a 1.5x population of NA so that means it is only a third the revenue per user. The third segment has 6x population of NA so the revenue per user is only ~8% of a NA user and that population’s revenue stream is probably dominated by Japan, Korea, Australia and wealthy countries. At a certain point it costs more to serve content than ads will pay. Twitter doesn’t have the pockets to run a loss as an investment indefinitely so it needs to be picky about where it spends money.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by blitzar on Wednesday December 14, 2022 @03:30AM (#33981266)
I thought it was a town square for the world?

The most important town square for the world.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by blamazon on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @04:19PM (#33975966)
"Mitchell and Webb - Kill The Poor":

https://youtu.be/owI7DOeO_yg

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by P5fRxh5kUvp2th on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @11:35AM (#33971188)
If the plan was to do something short term while a better, longer term fix, is put into place, that sounds reasonable.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by ollien on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @12:07PM (#33971800)
Do you have a source on this?
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by matwood on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @01:06PM (#33973060)
https://www.platformer.news/p/how-elon-botched-his-war-on-bo...

> The project was part of Elon Musk’s attempt to rid Twitter of spam. But rather than work to remove individual offenders, the company identified mobile networks associated with large spam networks in specific countries, and blocked users who relied on those networks from receiving SMS messages from Twitter, impacting people with two-factor authentication. Then it blocked traffic from those carriers completely.

> From 5:35 AM to 6:45 AM PT on Sunday, Twitter shut down access to the primary telecom providers in India and Russia, as well as the second biggest telecom company in Indonesia, Platformer has learned.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by mradek on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @10:00AM (#33969697)
Twitter use is up because everyone wants to see the sometimes insane tweets put their by their top leadership. I had never used twitter prior to Elon taking over, and I made an account to check it out for a week or two.

Ultimately stopped using it because it isn’t really for me. I also don’t care enough for anyone’s opinion that much that I’m willing to scroll through insanity, bots, and a holes to find a nugget. But I’m sure millions of others do enjoy that.

HN is my fav social media lol.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by kibwen on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @11:40AM (#33971302)
> most of my friends have increased their twitter usage

Meanwhile, all of my friends have erased their Twitter accounts (some migrating to Mastodon, others to other social media sites, others happily forgoing social media at all), all of the organizations I'm a part of have stopped using Twitter for official communication, the subreddits I follow have banned Twitter links, and my product has removed its Twitter integration. Large swathes of the internet are defederating from Twitter.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by katbyte on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:21AM (#33969205)
> most of my friends have increased their twitter usage.

it doesn't matter if people use the platform more if they don't pay for the blue check or if advertisers are not interested in paying for ads.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by HN_is_for_gemes on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:25AM (#33969267)
Yes, because marketers don't care about audience size and they have a long history of being strictly moral people.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by uoaei on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @11:26AM (#33971025)
It's almost like they don't have infinite money and need to decide where to allocate their resources.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @10:53AM (#33970503)
Marketers care very much about the context their ads appear in, which is why they're leaving Twitter in droves. https://www.npr.org/2022/11/25/1139180002/twitter-loses-50-t...

Musk has already had one public tantrum about it. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1597285572699074560

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by linuxftw on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:38AM (#33969416)
I qualify as a marketer. I don't want my ads seen by people not local to my market. Audience size alone isn't useful, it's about target audience, of which, almost none of that would have been blocked recently. (I don't use or market on twitter).
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by matwood on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @01:04PM (#33973016)
If we assume (big assumption) Musk has done everything right since the closing, he may still just be rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. His hubris got him stuck in a deal way over paying for Twitter. I think he thought he could run his mouth and get out of any real consequence like he's done every other time. Except this time he found out.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by actualwitch on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @09:59AM (#33969689)
> Just to give some perspective that I don’t think HN really gets: most of my friends have increased their twitter usage.

So your friends are using twitter more and you just assume everyone else does too? Have you considered that people who have other opinions exist and theirs is as valid as yours?

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by zeven7 on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @12:50PM (#33972711)
> Have you considered that people who have other opinions exist and theirs is as valid as yours?

I think parent is saying the opposite.

"Just to give some perspective that I don’t think HN really gets"

Parent has seen several comments assuming everyone's leaving Twitter and Musk is destroying the platform and himself and will never recover. I, likewise, reading Reddit get the same feeling that some pockets think everybody is leaving Twitter and going to Mastadon or something like this is a big cultural revolution. I think that is true in some pockets, but like parent I don't think anyone except Musk really knows what the actual engagement numbers look like, and even he doesn't know what they'll look like long term. But he is clearly making a bet, and it's silly for a biased hivemind to already assume his downfall when it actually hasn't happened yet. Just like there was a broad assumption that Twitter would have all kinds of technical issues after most of the staff was fired. Maybe that's still to come, but it hasn't really happened yet, and it can't be assumed.

Twitter isn't necessarily going to be an epic failure, and it's strange how some pockets of the internet feel they should make that assertion, whether you agree with Musk's politics or not. And politics is what it really comes down to. Politics is what drives the desire for these communities to see Musk fail, nothing else.

And at any rate it is very strange to compare Musk to SBF in any way.

Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by matwood on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @01:13PM (#33973170)
Everyone assumed my comment about hubris referred to how he's running Twitter now. I think what he's doing is dumb, but that's not my point. His biggest problem is he way overpaid, and saddled the company with a ton of debt. My hubris comment was referring to him talking big and signing a deal he never intended to follow through on. He could run Twitter perfectly and still be forced into bankruptcy by the end of '23. IMO, that's a very likely scenario.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by zeven7 on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @01:28PM (#33973472)
Agreed on all points here.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by astrange on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @02:21PM (#33974293)
I've gotten more bots, all three of crypto pump replies, sexy women accounts following me, and group DMs about job offers in Japanese.
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by Aaronstotle on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @04:41PM (#33976292)
Everyday I am tagged in a crypto bot spam comment and get invited to a spam group DM. Twitter still has issues
Re:SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investor... by stevenally on Tuesday December 13, 2022 @07:33PM (#33978391)
Are your friends buying advertising on Twitter?