Engineer ("ingénieur") is both a diploma, a status, and a title.
The diploma is regulated by a committee that endorses curriculum for colleges so that they can deliver an engineering degree. It indeed requires some specific training, and not all schools have the endorsement. There _is_ a difference between "I have an MSc in X" and "I am an engineer in X". I think this is what you are referring to.
The status can be earned by having the diploma or getting a recognition of skill by experience. It's usually useless in private companies, but opens the door to better social security in public and institutional services.
The title (as in job title) is unregulated and can be given to anyone.
from wikipedia In 2019, President Emmanuel Macron announced he would propose to abolish and replace the ENA. Macron is an ENA graduate himself, but the tight network of ENA graduates influencing the French civil service has been decried by populist protests such as the yellow vests movement as an elite governing class out of touch with the lower social classes. In April 2021, Macron confirmed the closure of the school, calling the closure "the most important reform of the senior public service" since the school's creation in 1945. In January 2022, it has been replaced by the Institut national du service public (INSP).
In the same way business schools are really networks or clubs (there is little learning taking place at BS..), ENA is a club for the highest-ranking civil servants in the country (i.e. no learning happens at ENA/INSP, merely co-opting into the club of those who then should serve the country but instead gut the state for the benefit of their class).
Although I've heard Professional Engineers Ontario made enough noise awhile back and big tech companies had to rename their local job descriptions to "developer"
https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=Waterloo,%... (only "developer")
https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/?location=New%20York... (only "engineer")
If they use the term "engineer" in the work description, they won't be able to sponsor visas for candidate without an engineering degree.
I believe it's more likely for a professional engineer to be liable, but surely in projects of any reasonably large scale there would be several layers of engineering management and oversight such that the engineer working on a part of the puzzle wouldn't be liable for a greater architectural flaw...?
For example, the Boeing 737 MAX had a high level fatal flaw that existed because of a mismatched collection of arguably correct or valid hardware and software systems. The engineers who designed the more forward set engines probably did their jobs correctly, and the software "engineers" who built the pitch up correction software presumably didn't write bugs. However, the combination of the two were primary factors in the fatal accidents.
I have seen situations where the text had to be changed to keep the software legally culpable.
In those cases negligence will lead to prosecution.
The key is that if it requires some sort of certification, as Canada claims it does, then it should be a modifier/adjective on the title like "certified janitor" or "licensed engineer".
Just claiming an existing single common noun as an exclusive term belonging to your organization is clearly an untenable position. If you have to keep reminding everyone that they're infringing on your trademark all the time by using a common word, you've already lost.
I think that's a bit harder to replace than it is to clean a dirty toilet. Presumably the professional engineers can clean their own toilet if absolutely necessary.
Engineering was a thing before software.
The group that wants to protect or maintain ownership of the word "engineer" is dependent upon the people whom it objects to also using that title.
The core concepts which make engineering engineering? Yeah.
>The group that wants to protect or maintain ownership of the word "engineer" is dependent upon the people whom it objects to also using that title.
They are as dependent on software as any other institution, on a day-to-day basis, which have transitioned to computerized automation over the last ~60 years. Software aids efficiency.
The argument that engineers are incapable of designing and constructing sound solutions without software is unsound.
Name one modern feat of engineering which could be done without the aid of software.
Commercial airliner? Nope. Modern skyscraper? Nope. Modern CPU? Nope.
Modern bridge? Maybe; but without structural analysis and stress simulations, it's going to use more material and be rated lower.
I'm done arguiung. It's clear that there's always some meritless retort waiting.
A long time ago in Paris the street sweepers were euphemistically called "surface engineering technicians" (paraphrasing from the French "technicien de surface", but I think this is close enough)...
If your university offers computer science as a bachelor of engineering, it actually does grant you the title.
That's not correct. E.g., consider the relevant section in the Bavarian engineering law[1] (using Google Translate):
> The job title engineer alone or in a word combination may use,
> (1) Anyone who has successfully completed an undergraduate degree at a state or state-recognized German university
> a) in a technical-scientific subject,
> b) which has a standard period of study of at least six full-time semesters and with which at least 180 points can be acquired using the ECTS system and
> c) in which the areas of mathematics, computer science, natural sciences and technology predominate; this requirement does not apply to people who have completed an undergraduate degree in industrial engineering and only use the professional title in the word combination industrial engineer
Further, my diploma for a Bachelor's in Computer Science from TUM contains the passage:
> The graduate is entitled to employ the designation Engineer alone or as part of a compound word.
[1] https://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/BayIngG2016-2
I believe around 2005 most german universities switched to granting masters and bachelors, usually „of Science“ for technical subjects. The title is in english, also in german language context.
And Berlin is (I'm told by everyone here) much more English language than anywhere else in Germany.
For conservative big names engineering like Bosch, Simenns or traditional mittlestand companies that mostly operate with German customers, yes they still use it. Xing is full of German only job ads.
But for software only companies operating international looking to attract foreign talent off LinkeIn, no, it's all English.
It requires specific licensure and years of training directly under an existing "Professional engineer".