So what's interesting here is: 1) The size of the jump in excess deaths. 2) Not all the excess deaths are attributable to Covid.

> That equates to an extra 18,671 deaths. Of those, only 7727 were attributed to Covid – or 41 per cent – leaving 10,944 non-Covid excess deaths.

So, 41% of the excess deaths were attributed to covid, leaving 59% of the jump in excess deaths to be things that were already killing us, but for some reason are killing us _more_ this year.

> So far in 2022, deaths due to dementia are up 18.9 per cent, diabetes up 20.8 per cent, cancer up 6.1 per cent, and ischaemic heart disease up 3.3 per cent, according to ABS data.

and all the things that: 1) aren't covid 2) are increased excess deaths

appear to be things that covid _makes worse_. I don't have any scientific papers or news articles to hand or anything, but I've been reading for the last few years now that covid impacts the brain(brain fog in long covid), hits overweight people & diabetics harder, causes heart problems, etc etc.

Which is the simplistic take. but I do wonder if there's anything more to it, that I can't think of at all?

Also, no idea about increased cancers. Delayed treatment? Less effective treatment or diagnosis due to covid precautions? something completely unrelated to covid? Any thoughts there?

“Covid deaths” is an incredibly subjective data point and it’s clear countries don’t all measure it the same.

But deaths are deaths, so comparing “excess mortality” during and after Covid will give a much more objective picture of how different approaches worked.

But it will be important to look at excess mortality for years after Covid. As the article points out, if restrictions limited access to medical care (or just caused people to delay seeking it) the ramifications will take years to show up.

There are ways of modeling this all but it's going to be really challenging.

So many "smaller medical issues" are on a huge backlog ... the problem is not the present Federal or State govt fault wither, penny pinchers had been busy many many years before, that wave of BS was still being dealt with before covid arrived to make a hard situation worse. If "someone" fixes it so all the hospitals have capacity, eventually the next penny wise pound foolish crowd will rip it out again.

I speak as an idiot who in Feb 2020 got the start of a lot of strange symptoms which I now recognised were probably covid-19, after a bit of man flu, BAD chest pains, breathless, could hardly pick my feet up coupled with very sore hips, which progressed couple weeks later to hypoxia for what felt like months but was only 3 weeks, red spots on skin, I noted I seemed to be bruising myself while I slept or somehow the day before without realising, hand numbness. Feeling a bit better a month after that getting a cut while walking in the bush, wrapping it with my shirt and continued, but getting home after I felt not too much blood would end up on the floor of a vehicle which wasn't mine, noted it still had not clotted after about 4 hours though it did congeal in the shirt and the shoe. Both the Bad chest pains and cut were something which I should have ventured to A&E to get treated ... in both instances I was stupid and opted not to bother my local hospital. I still haven't to date, as they're still a bit swamped and obviously the time to go was both times something was serious and I might not have waited for a few hours. My chest pains have eased but I know at some point I need to get it checked out.

It's saddening to hear that Australia's hospital system is overloaded like the US's. Nurses are burnt out and leaving in droves, and we're not even giving them a raise. I'm amazed how little emergency workers seem to be valued after a major emergency.

Yep, unfortunately when one is suffering, thinking smart isn't the first reaction. I could write a few pages on how stupid I've been the last couple of years in regard to my health - the cut leg writes like a comedy, but here I am, still waiting for the local hospital to settle and covid related problems to pass. Some people like to think it's gone away, but driving my Mother down to the very same local hospital today so that can take blood for bloodwork, she missed out, it closed early due to a current staff shortage, no doubt they were off sick, there's a fourth or fifth wave on the go in my locale.

The hospital system is basically free here, and there's a certain proportion of the "but I have to pay lots of taxes" crowd who don't like money wasted on less fortunate people, and they've got a friend in a certain political party -- as such most hospitals, spend a term or two where they have been weighted down so it's almost enough, but not quite enough. The Federal govt control the purse, and with the pandemic arriving in 2020, you'd think the first thing would be to ready the medical troops. Sadly the Fed bunch were unequivocal boneheads. When eventually in 2021 they forced my state's hand, the Fed bunch outright refused more hospital funding. No worries though, the public let them know at the next election, they got voted out, they keep on losing subsequent state elections as well ... and are "stumped" as to what they did wrong ... lol.

https://www.actuaries.digital/2022/12/07/covid-19-mortality-...

It actually has a great summary at the bottom about the probable causes of excess deaths to date.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-...

Given that no one is actually attempting to monitor this, and that health authorities worldwide have tried their best to destroy the control group this seems like a reasonable assumption to make, or at the very least something that should be investigated. But it isn't. There are a couple of subreddits full of stores about vaccine problems.

I see the only comment in this thread asking about the percentage vaccinated / boosted is marked as [dead]. Why? It's a pretty reasonable question given the way the vaccine rollout has been handled.

Most of the public assume something along the lines of "one and done" when it comes to a vaccines, not constant boosters followed by still catching covid multiple times, and they promise that they are "working".

Weekly fluctuations in excess deaths correlates strongly with covid deaths, so people who want to pretend that the excess deaths are due to something other than covid (ie, vaccinations or lockdown measures) are barking up the wrong tree.

https://www.actuaries.digital/2022/12/07/covid-19-mortality-...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-...

At this point, either the vaccine works as claimed, in which case we shouldn't be seeing these numbers, or it doesn't.

[0] https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/vaccina...

The covid spike toxicity due to the spike being present from being administered "most" vaccines and covid-19 itself, is my guess for the reason there's similar problems in both groups, albeit, to a very much smaller extent with vaccinated people. I know first hand a couple of people who reported a serious issue with the vaccines, in particular one was a nurse who's got a couple of young kids, but back at work, working at the local hospital, telling me she now needs to be fitted with a pace maker after she reacted to her vaccine shot. My next door neighbour who's slightly older in her late 30s, possibly early 40s, was fit, not fat, was anti vaxx, caught covid a few months back iirc, had a mild case in so much as she was handed medication and asked to ride it out back at her own residence, and afterwards with about the same mind set on vaccines ... I hadn't seen her in a bit, spoke to her last week, she's a couple month after open heart surgery ... very pro vaxx now ...

(I do not think this is, I am just curious)

Damaging the immune system with lockdowns (less uvb, less activity, fear), mask mandates (The only big studie that shows some positive effect has been made in Bangladesh. Because the medical level and corruption level are known to be superior to the industrialized nations?) and dubious vaccines takes its toll.

There have been plenty of studies done with / in regards of masks.

Also I'm totally lost on why you would ever rant on masks. They are easy to wear and do relatively good in comparison to the effort of wearing one.

I also find it tremendously shitty to write this in a way that it was always clear from the beginning how this new Virus would interact with us.

Why people like you think it's reasonable at all NOT TO BE careful for a totally NEW UnKNOWN airborne virus?

This is srsly your first response to a unknown new thread? Ignoring it?

And the situation at the beginning with alpha then beta and then delta was constantly changing.

And I really hope you are at least as opiniated about all the other scams and not just your 'covid scam' like homeopathic 'medicin' and other things like religion.

But not plenty positive ones. And not plenty sufficient big ones.

> in a way that it was always clear from the beginning

It was clear from the beginning, that the IFR is around 0.1 and 0.2 %, with a much higher rate for old men. So an appropriate reaction was for sure not the hysteric, fascist way.

> totally NEW UnKNOWN airborne virus

This is bullshit. The virus is from a well known family, and has just some new sequences on some of its proteins. Cross-immunity in many people was near sure. And at least the cleavage site of the S protein has a sequence patented (in 2016 by Moderna), so I guess it was not really unknown, either.

My opinions are less religious than that of most other people. Did you really dare to answer to one of the comments to your comment with a link to a press release of the MPI, instead of a peer reviewed article?

At least I don't know any other virus everyone got I know we're a few people had strong bad reactions and lasting issues for longer than a month.

Besides that, totally overrun hospitals with an highly contagious 'new' virus (including the risk you have with something normal while the hospitals were busy)

In Germany there were no overrun hospitals.

'Nuff said.

Why are you lying?

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/corona-lage-auf-den-intensivst...

And now tell me where the full ICUs are [edit: and notice the 'big' amount of COVID19 patients].

And furthermore, notice the diminishing amount of total ICUs during this 'pandemic'.

Why have you not been part of the pandemic expert group?

I'm happy to get primary sources from you which you will easily be able to produce.

This is from the well known max Planck institute from Germany (we're I live)

The other studies you can easily find are also from well known institutes.

What research?

For you personal?

Public transport mandated ffp2 masks though at the beginning and in Bavaria I primarily saw them.

But still of everything the mask thing is and was always a no brainer. Even if a good study might say later it did only save a few x people in comparison to the effort I don't mind.

At the beginning there was also a lot of isolation due to overwhelmed hospitals. They were real and still struggling.

The biggest issue in my opinion was that we as a society with so much knowledge and automitsation struggled sooo much with either people working from home or not needing to work.

Can you point me to anywhere on the graph that indicates that they improved the outcome? I believe that they were mandated in Bavaria in mid January 2021, and the rest of the country in April 2021. https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/26/scientists-identify-likely-c...

Australia has 25 Million people.

The Netherlands for example had a much more open COVID strategy than Germany but culture wise there were much less weird / crazy people spewing miss information than what happens in Germany.

But population density in Sweden is 24p/km^2 while Australia has 3.3people/km^2.

Scandinavian countries are at least known to follow rules quite well as the trust for the gov is high.

They do had social distancing rules for example. Closed some school levels and forbid mass events.

Sweden also had one of the highest death rates at the beginning of COVID.

I haven't followed Australia to more detail though.

Edit: Scandinavian countries are also known for their really good internet (remote work)

Rules in Sweden were no nursing homes visits and no gathering above 50 people.

Look at youtube videos of social distance in Swedish metro during covid, hint there were no distancing.

Average age person who died with covid was 84 years old. Most of these deaths were in nursing homes, which once government realized it, visits were banned.

https://www.science.org/content/article/it-s-been-so-so-surr...

But I'm stating that this simplification in the earlier comment is not as simple.

Independent of this, it doesn't matter as captain hindsight didn't exist in the beginning of all of this.

If a peer reviewed study comes to the conclusion that a lockdown was a shitty idea it doesn't make it a bad decision.

That's funny. As restrictions started to lift during 2021 (UK/Wales), some complained that the government was now letting it rip. Just shows - anyone more cautious than you is needlessly scared, and anyone less cautious is an idiot.

[0] https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/vaccina...

How do you square these two things?

We're taking now with the benefit of knowing the future. The lockdowns kept the numbers low for a long time and vaccination kept the original strains away as well by the time we did the "mission success".

Input Australia on https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations and have a look for yourself.

Then again, we were always behind each and every variant, always following our tail when it came to it.

By December we were already just doing the long tail of vaccinations getting to that 95% in Feb (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-inter...) So while I agree we had issues with the rollout, I don't agree "we were always behind each and every variant".

"“One of the other important factors is we see higher non-Covid deaths when there are Covid deaths,” she said. “Part of it could be people are not getting healthcare when they need it, particularly emergency care, or there could be more undiagnosed Covid than we know about.”

“One of the other important factors is we see higher non-Covid deaths when there are Covid deaths,” she said. “Part of it could be people are not getting healthcare when they need it, particularly emergency care, or there could be more undiagnosed Covid than we know about.”"