News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by Jamie9912 on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:24AM (#33382116)
standard european salary
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by yewenjie on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:33AM (#33382156)
No it is not. Even if you are talking about the average software dev salary across Europe, Thibault is way more experienced, and he lives in France.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by iLoveOncall on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:44AM (#33382498)
France has very low developer salaries. While 50K is towards the bottom of the barrel with his experience, it's definitely not uncommon either.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by eastbound on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:53AM (#33382542)
50k€ = 75k€ total cost for the employer, and it used to mean 100k$ before the devaluation of the euro. But on this spreadsheet, he wrote 52k TCO, to that’s 35k gross or 26k€ net, ie 2200 per month, it’s very low for an entrepreneur.

I personally can’t find developers for 40 (junior) - 65k€ (decently senior), so, even though recruiters tell me I’m offering 8-10k too much, the actual market may be much, much higher.

Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by rozenmd on Saturday October 29, 2022 @06:27AM (#33382732)
I moved to France in May this year, remote dev jobs for mid-senior were starting at 85k euros base.

Which compared to international companies hiring remotely, was very very low.

Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by conradfr on Saturday October 29, 2022 @08:56AM (#33383649)
Which language?
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by rozenmd on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:06PM (#33387946)
JavaScript
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by ShockedUnicorn on Saturday October 29, 2022 @07:10AM (#33382970)
I used to make $28k/year pre-tax as a junior dev (java+frontend, quit job 2 years ago), so your recruiters aren't that wrong.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by ohbtvz on Saturday October 29, 2022 @08:17AM (#33383400)
In his AMA he wrote that that's what he earns before income tax. In French parlance this means after all employer and employee social deductions.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by ignaloidas on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:47AM (#33382218)
Assuming this is before taxes, no, that's not much. It takes about 1.5x-2x of what a worker gets for a company to pay them salary. I'm not familiar with French taxes, but the resulting salary is bellow what I would expect him to get for sure.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by tigertigertiger on Saturday October 29, 2022 @04:52AM (#33382242)
Not for a scala dev and not for someone with his experience, that's just wrong.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by nnopepe on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:12AM (#33382344)
I am unfamiliar with scala, which of it's traits makes it deserving of higher pay?
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by fazfq on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:50AM (#33382525)
I guess the fact that it's rarer than other languages, but I have no idea.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by texasbigdata on Saturday October 29, 2022 @06:10AM (#33382641)
Just a guess: perhaps that it’s more applicable to large use cases and at clients that are much more likely to be profitable and therefore able to pay?
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by jon-wood on Saturday October 29, 2022 @07:13AM (#33382989)
Scala is big in the financial sector, which means average salaries for Scala developers are going to trend higher.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by jlund-molfese on Saturday October 29, 2022 @06:46AM (#33382837)
Functional languages seem to have a smaller talent pool and higher salaries.

You can write procedural Scala, but if that’s the case, you might as well use modern Java.

Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by lmm on Saturday October 29, 2022 @07:19AM (#33383021)
It's popular in finance, which pulls up the average pay.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by agravier on Saturday October 29, 2022 @09:38AM (#33383942)
Also in all sorts of data engineering, productionized data science, etc.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by thatwasunusual on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:23AM (#33382399)
Maybe it depends on which European country, but overall that's a lot lower than anything I've seen in any European countries the last 3-4 years.

Minimum seems to be $70K/year, while the normal seems to be $80-85K, pre-tax.

Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by ShockedUnicorn on Saturday October 29, 2022 @07:07AM (#33382953)
What do you mean with minium in this case? When I still had a job I used to make $28k/year pre-tax in Sweden as a junior developer (java + frontend). This was in line with my other junior colleagues.
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by orwin on Saturday October 29, 2022 @08:01AM (#33383297)
28k pretax seems really low. For the record, with a master at a government job in France, i was paid (as a junior) 27k after tax 5years ago (34k pretax but with government jobs you dont pay the social security tax or something, so its basically 40k pretax).

Now i work for Banks and energy companies, and the pay skyrocketed.

Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by machinekob on Saturday October 29, 2022 @05:23AM (#33382400)
Standard for someone with about 1 year of exp.

Its extremely low for someone with such a high skill level after tax it'll be about 35-40k euro not counting VAT on all the products you buy in EU (avg 18-23%).

Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by yokoprime on Saturday October 29, 2022 @06:17AM (#33382678)
Maybe in continental Europe.. but thats about half, maybe 1/3 of what he would make in E.g. Norway
Re:Taking Lichess to the Next Level by karencarits on Saturday October 29, 2022 @07:48PM (#33389149)
The mean salary for developers with 10-14 years of experience seems to be about $75,000 in Norway, freelancers and those with their own businesses has perhaps about $85,000 (https://www.noroff.no/nyheter/accelerate/1399-hva-tjener-en-...)