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Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by busyant on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:05PM (#33362432)
whoever is funding this, i would say their approach is ineffective at best and almost certainly counterproductive to their cause.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by FredPret on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:10PM (#33362507)
Unless discrediting the cause is the goal
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by warbler73 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:30PM (#33362793)
Agreed. That's really the only interpretation that makes sense, assuming they are acting rationally.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by 1ris on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:09PM (#33363325)
Genuine question: What would you expect a rational actor to do FOR the cause? Because to me this looks very rational and very much for the cause.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by BitwiseFool on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:24PM (#33363513)
I'll be up front and admit that I don't know what activism FOR the cause would be effective. But that doesn't stop me from knowing what isn't effective and what is actually wholly counterproductive.

The reason why this doesn't look rational or 'for the cause' is because the target in question really has nothing to do with the petroleum industry. Johannes Vermeer painted this art in 1665 before the industrial revolution. The subject is just a woman with a pearl earring. So neither the painter nor the work of art have any persuasion or symbolism that encourages fossil fuel use. It seems totally illogical to commit an act such as this. I think the public at large sees no connection between what the activists went after and what they are trying to achieve. When that happens, it delegitimizes the movement in peoples eyes.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by 1ris on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:38PM (#33363709)
What about this is counterproductive? People get angry, emotional involved. After a few minutes they realize that the glass in front of the painting is not that expensive and all is well. Or is it? That's when they have time to think about destruction and maybe what these people just said about climate change.

What picture exactly is of course not important. Any popular picture with a glass plate in front of it could have done the job. I don't they have any ax to grind about Vermeer, nor will the controversy have any connections to him or his art.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by BitwiseFool on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:55PM (#33363904)
>"After a few minutes they realize that the glass in front of the painting is not that expensive and all is well. Or is it? That's when they have time to think about destruction and maybe what these people just said about climate change."

I don't think this is true, for most people. People do not generally stop and think in a deep and reflective way after getting angry about something. What these activists did was not inspiring and it did not look like justice. They aren't Rosa Parks 2.0, they're people throwing liquid at inanimate objects (which people beautiful and valuable) and gluing themselves to objects at a museum. There is no powerful symbolism of defiance here, this is not speaking truth to power. They just look like childish weirdos. Childish weirdos do not make me self-reflect and question if I'm actually the one doing something wrong.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by warbler73 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:34PM (#33363656)
Agreed. The argument seems to be that the targeted pieces are "oil" paintings. But surely they know that the oil in these masterworks is derived from renewable sources and that therefore makes no sense, oil in oil paint is not petroleum based. So it seems the argument is disingenuous and there is a conspiracy. On the other hand I have realized that very few things people do are rational so the assumption common in economics theories that people are making rational choices I am not convinced by. Personally I think these people are all just crazy. However I can not rule out conspiracy to discredit. Like UFOs, this movement is an enigma.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by HWR_14 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @10:52PM (#33367025)
> the target in question really has nothing to do with the petroleum industry.

This is correct. The target is an irreplaceable piece of art. It's supposed to stand in for the earth (or some subset like nature). That's the point. The stand-in for the petroleum industry is whatever commodity they are throwing at it

It's also pretty logical because it doesn't actually cause permanent damage, but sensationalist headline writers make it seems like it did. So the stories get more virality then they otherwise would.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by serf on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:46PM (#33363807)
look at any other 'eco-terrorist' group, you'll find more direct action rather than propagandist actions intended to influence the public.

the Animal Liberation Front didn't ask the public to destroy slaughter-houses. the sea-shepherds didn't ask the public to attack whaling vessels, and to give an example from fiction 'Avalanche' didn't ask the public to attack power stations.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by badwolf on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:49PM (#33363835)
If one must throw soup, Perhaps instead of throwing soup at works of art... Throw soup on oil conglomerate executives, to start.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by kelseyfrog on Thursday October 27, 2022 @10:36PM (#33366910)
That's the thing I don't get. A billion dollars could make 1000 oil exec's lives hell. The CIA did far worse with far fewer resources.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by pvaldes on Thursday October 27, 2022 @05:57PM (#33364592)
> What would you expect a rational actor to do FOR the cause?

Di Caprio is rich and support nature conservation. Is not really so much difficult if you are rich. You just buy a chunk of land with a unique ecosystem, keep people from entering on it and you save ten species from going extinct. Is as simple as that.

What I would -not- expect is the children of some millionaires convincing poor or dumb people to perform humiliating, illegal and dangerous stunts in public for a small fee.

Lets imagine the outrage if one influencer would be caught paying homeless people to glue their heads and hands to a wall, and videotaping them while claiming, hey! I do it for the environment!.

This is mocking ecologists, manipulating poor people to perform degrading acts in public and endangering invaluable art. Three in one, all in the same stinking package.

This kind of fun is unacceptable, and should have consequences.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by warbler73 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:13PM (#33365298)
> Is not really so much difficult if you are rich. You just buy a chunk of land with a unique ecosystem, keep people from entering on it and you save ten species from going extinct. Is as simple as that.

Oh do you mean that land in Hawaii that he blocked native caretakers from accessing and has since been taken over by invasive species?

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by pvaldes on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:29PM (#33365457)
> Oh, do you mean that land in Hawaii?

Not. Try again.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by warbler73 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @09:24PM (#33366369)
Ah, so he bought a Carribean island and is marketing it as an upscale resort for the ultra rich to jet to and this makes him an eco savior. Nah.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by omginternets on Friday October 28, 2022 @12:20AM (#33367640)
Relatedly: what might an irrational actor do FOR the cause?
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by jonnycomputer on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:10PM (#33365264)
Oh, people do all kinds of stupid stuff to trend on TikTok...
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by colechristensen on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:53PM (#33363107)
Doubtful. Having little connection to reality and doing ridiculous things is much more likely than malice.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by bts327 on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:28PM (#33363563)
Likely the case
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by 1ris on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:21PM (#33362671)
That's what people said about PETA and whatever outrageous stuff they did.

Time has disprove these people. I don't see how this is any different.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by chadash on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:28PM (#33362764)
I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you implying that the world has come to accept PETA's cause. Because while some issues are dramatically different than 20-30 years ago (e.g. marijuana legalization, gay marriage), I don't think the bar has shifted very much on animal welfare.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by 1ris on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:39PM (#33362928)
Of course everybody thinks PETA as lunatics, maybe rightfully. But it was them made veganism a thing. It's mainstream now. (I guess about between 2% and 5% of the population and growing). Burger king and McDonnalds sell vegan options. That's absurdly successful. When they started it was literally about 5 people.

I don't think most vegans will quote them for their change, but their activism that gave animal wellfare attention in a attention economy, when it would otherwise simply not have gotten any.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by GekkePrutser on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:37PM (#33365535)
I think globalisation plays a part in this too. Some Asian cultures are vegetarian or vegan and increased ties with the rest of the world has spread their culture too.

I often eat at a Nepalese vegan restaurant and the food sure beats McDonald's or burger king. Not to mention they actually believe in veganism, they don't just have a token veggie burger on the menu because the market wants it.

They even prohibit consumption of baby food with meat on the premises :)

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by Fnoord on Thursday October 27, 2022 @10:41PM (#33366946)
Prohibition is the very issue. Instead, market whatever vegan you got as better for environment (if that is your goal).

As for prohibiting baby food, I would kindly tell them to go fuck themselves. Nobody is going to prohibit a parent from feeding their baby with food already prepared and bought. Its exactly this type of rhetoric which makes moderates skip on vegan community (and I eat vegan dishes on a daily basis!)

I don't want whoever to believe, I want a neat combination of healthy, tasty, and good for environment/animal, but in a spectrum. Not extremes, not any toxic belief systems.

(As for McDs and BK there are better veggie and vegan options available but I prefer BK vegan way over McDs vegan, hands down. That we have these options is a sign of time. When I was full-time vegan it was a nightmare to go out eating. Now we have New York Pizza delivering delicious vegan shoarma pizzas.)

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:37PM (#33362888)
I think the implication is that PETA legitimately believes in their cause and methods.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by pvaldes on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:39PM (#33365548)
And they fail again and again. Peta (and similar groups), are responsible of a lot of acts that can only described as environmental terrorism. And they did it for the money, not for the cause.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by ElevenLathe on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:11PM (#33363358)
When was the last time you saw someone wearing fur?
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by pvaldes on Thursday October 27, 2022 @07:40PM (#33365565)
> When was the last time you saw someone wearing fur?

Winter of 2022, half of Europe. PETA can frolic naked in the snow if they want.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by ElevenLathe on Friday October 28, 2022 @12:37AM (#33367732)
What? Anyway the point is that fur was at one point, not that long ago, quite common and fashionable, and now most people have never even seen a fur coat. This could be simply fashion (we dress a lot less formally now in general) but IMO you can also trace it pretty directly to PETA throwing paint on people wearing them. Why buy an expensive fur if somebody is just going to ruin it with paint or, worse, you just look like an asshole wearing it?
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by pvaldes on Friday October 28, 2022 @04:40AM (#33369053)
> Why buy an expensive fur if somebody is just going to ruin it with paint or, worse, you just look like an asshole wearing it?

Why buy an expensive tablet made of nasty coltan if a brat is just going to jump over it?, oh wait... in fact they don't do it.

This hypocrites bully grandmas "in the name of ecology" while using all the time products made of materials that destroy the African rainforests, and never think twice about it.

And in their totalitarian utopia we all wear plastic replacements. Of course plastic fur is super-ecological. Have you heard of particles of "micro-leather" or "micro-fox-hair" contaminating the environment?. Me neither.

They are directly responsible of the death of animals and plants. To start the ruined products that would last a life have to be replaced at a faster pace, so more small carnivores must die for the paint. They liberate chimps in the zoos with the results that the chimps must be shoot and killed. They blocked fixing the American grey squirrel invasion in Italy, so now the squirrels are killing trees and the red squirrels are dying from viruses. Great job lads!. They liberate alien carnivores that kill millions of birds. They are always an obstacle for a sensible ecological management and always take the wrong side in terms of nature conservation.

But of course the rest of people are not moral enough and not saint enough. Not like them.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by chucksmash on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:44PM (#33363000)
That's a huge subjective leap to say time has disproved people who consider PETA and their methods ridiculous.

I would consider myself a person in favor of the ethical treatment of animals, and PETA campaigns like (the now quite old, but eminently memorable) "rebranding fish as sea kittens" [1] are so far out in la-la land, so ridiculous, and go so far in letting perfect be the enemy of good ("let's go after those unethical pescatarians!") that the organization loses credibility.

It doesn't help that in the intervening years, my main interaction with the organization (as well as Oxfam, ASPCA, etc) has been shady third party donation subscription hawkers trying to earn commissions off of tricking me into acknowledging them on lunch hour.

If there have been improvements in the treatment of animals over time, I'd make my own subjective leap to say they happened in spite of PETA, not because of it.

[1]: https://spotlight.peta.org/petaseakittens/

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by bawolff on Thursday October 27, 2022 @04:06PM (#33363285)
I mean, at least "fish are sea kittens" has some connection to their cause. The girl with the pearl earing isn't exactly mining coal.
Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by 1ris on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:57PM (#33363156)
Yes, peta are profoundly unlikeable people, back then and now. I don't like them, I think their holocaust comparisons are unforgivable and neither am i vegan. My point is that they are living rent free in peoples heads and do actually change attitudes. Because there was a huge change and i just don't see who else could have caused that.

My point was: Effective activism does not have to be likeable. Going for the opposite seems a viable strategy.

Re:Activist glues his head to 'Girl with a Pearl Earring' pa... by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday October 27, 2022 @03:10PM (#33362503)
Hopefully they'll all be charged as co-conspirators.