News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Roark66 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @09:52AM (#33307016)
For anyone who actually used those models for more than few days and learns their strengths and weaknesses it is completely obvious all this talk of "societal impact", or as you called it self imposed limits are 100% bulls**. Everyone in the field knows it.

99% of those using this tactics use it to justify not releasing their models to avoid giving competition a leg up(Google, openAI) and to pretend they are for "open research". As I said this is 100% bull.

The remaining 1% are either doing this to inflate their egos ("hey look how considerate and enlightened we are in everything we do!"), or they pander to media/silly politicians/various clueless commentators whose level of knowledge about this technology is null. They regurgitate the same set of "what ifs and horror stories" to scare the public into standing by when they attempt to over regulate another field so they can be kingmakers within it(if you want an example how it works look at the energy sector).

All this sillyness accomplishes is to raise a barrier to entry for potential commercial competition. Bad actors will have enough money/lack scruples to train their own models or to steal your best ones regardless how "impact conscious" your company it.

Now, I don't claim everyone should be forced to publish their AI models. No, if you spent lots of money on training your model it is yours. But you can't lock all your work behind closed doors and call yourself open. It doesn't work like this. One important point is that there is value even in just publishing a paper demonstrating some achievements of a proprietary model, but if the experiment can't be reproduces based on description given that is not science and for sure it is not open.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Gordonjcp on Sunday October 23, 2022 @10:44AM (#33307399)
Like what kind of "bad actors" are they even talking about when they say they don't want their code to fall into the wrong hands?

Organised crime? If a big enough organised crime group wanted it you'd get stuffed into the back of a van.

CIA? MI6? You'd get stuffed into the back of a van. FSB? They'd invade the country to stuff you into the back of a van then bum 20 quid off you for diesel. Mossad? They'd break into your house and replace your computer with an identical fully-functional one made of polonium *while you were using it* and say they didn't do it, while showing AI-generated footage of a Russian doing it on TV and crediting you for the software they totally didn't steal.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by no-dr-onboard on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:13AM (#33307618)
> while you were using it* and say they didn't do it

Had a good chuckle. Didn’t know Tom Clancy frequented hacker news.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ben_w on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:31PM (#33308165)
Small and medium-sized bad actors.

As you say, the big bads have means regardless, and probably don't need it because they're often big enough to hire a lot of humans to do e.g. propaganda for them.

Now, imagine a conspiracy theorist. Not a harmless moon landing denier, but someone who is convinced that pizzagate was a real thing, and gets AI to fake mountains of "evidence" until the politicians that he or she is convinced did those things, are lynched, or at the very least become politically toxic.

Think it can't happen? Fake porn is already being used to harm random women, and real pictures from veterinary text books have been used as fake "evidence" of animal abuse.

AI is a tool that can make anyone more competent, but it doesn't make us better or wiser or kinder.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Gordonjcp on Wednesday October 26, 2022 @03:28AM (#33340801)
> ... real pictures from veterinary text books have been used as fake "evidence" of animal abuse.

I'll do you one better than that. Farms use a lot of seasonal workers and small farms in particular will hire people in for a week or so when things are busy. I know a farmer who hired in a bunch of folk to help over the shearing. It turns out that two of the people he hired wanted to film around the farm to capture some of the animal abuse that absolutely must be going on because farmers have nothing better to do, but they didn't find any. So figuring that they were never going to let themselves into the "inner secret animal abuse lair" or whatever the fuck was going through their stoned little minds, they decided to...

yup...

... film themselves kicking fuck out of some sheep, and pretend it was common practice among farm workers.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by throwaway382938 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @10:47AM (#33307416)
Personal opinion:

EDIT: All of the replies are assuming I'm saying this is a good reason for not releasing these models. I don't say that anywhere below nor do I agree with it.

These models are capable of generating photorealistic child pornography. That's why they're not being released.

I have no evidence to back this up, other than anecdotal. All the hand waving vague posts from SD, DALLE etc read like PR tactics to avoid getting the spotlight from the media and governments.

No one wants to post about this but I think everyone knows it's true, as soon as Congress realizes what these models can be used for there's going to be a moral panic.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dcow on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:38AM (#33307768)
Let’s also remember why CP is illegal in the first place: because children are manipulated and ultimately harmed in order to create it. I don’t see an ethical or moral problem with digitally generated content of that nature since children aren't being harmed. Am I missing something?
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by throwaway382938 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:43AM (#33307802)
I didn't say it's a good reason to not release the models, it's just why I think they aren't being released.

You should strive to respond to the strongest interpretation of what you read and not the weakest one.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dcow on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:53AM (#33307867)
I’m confused. I did respond to your argument which is that these things can do harm so people are trying to be responsible. My response is “actually no harm is being done so what’s the ethical problem”? The part that’s BS is when people who espouse this argument wave their hands and pull actual tangible harm out of thin air and and claim that these models are capable of causing it.

(You also suggested some impending moral panic. I don’t buy it.)

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by themacguffinman on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:49PM (#33308324)
What you're missing is that there are many people who think these things are illegal because "ew that's gross" and they also elect politicians who agree with them.

The United States has barely moved past the issue of homosexuality even though it harms no one, it is perhaps the most straightforward modern example of people trying to ban it due to personal & traditional disgust. Although there is a general majority approval for it, that doesn't carry to the electoral level where it remains a contentious partisan issue. But you think the ethics of CP & pedophilia will be discussed and legislated rationally?

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Salgat on Sunday October 23, 2022 @10:51AM (#33307445)
Photoshop can achieve the same thing. So can women hired by pornography companies that are 18 but look younger and intentionally dress like school girls. This excuse is nonsense in the context of what's already available.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by scarby2 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @10:58AM (#33307482)
> So can women hired by pornography companies that are 18 but look younger and intentionally dress like school girls.

I've yet to see an 18 year old that looks like an actual child regardless of how they're dressed however I'm also not looking for this sort of thing so...

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by pjc50 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:23AM (#33307678)
Reminded of how the first film role for veteran British character actress Helen Mirren was playing a naked 17 year old in a film called, er, Age of Consent. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063991/ ; she was 24.

This kind of thing happened a lot, and I think more than one entirely "mainstream" director in the 60s/70s filmed nude actresses below the age of 18. Fortunately it's a lot harder to get away with that these days. Not to mention (Weinstein and many, many others) sexually assaulting the actresses off screen.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dymk on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:01AM (#33307508)
How could you know you’ve never met one? Do you ask every person who looks younger than 18 if they’re actually a minor or not?
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dudeinjapan on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:19AM (#33307654)
The day I turned 18 I still looked like I was 17.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by 998244353 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:56AM (#33307888)
I know two separate people in real life that are in their twenties but don't look a day over 14. I don't know if it is some hormonal thing or just extraordinarily youthful looks.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by danaris on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:08PM (#33307983)
My sister-in-law tried to rent a bike at Disneyworld once, and was told she had to be at least 14.

Her entirely involuntary response was to exclaim, "Lady, I'm damn near 30!"

So yes; if a 28-year-old can be mistaken for younger than 14 without trying (or even wanting to), there are plenty of 18-year-olds who can appear much younger, especially if they are using makeup, acting tricks, and other means to artificially enhance that.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by throwaway382938 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:43AM (#33307801)
I didn't say it's a good reason to not release the models, it's just why I think they aren't being released.

You should strive to respond to the strongest interpretation of what you read and not the weakest one.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Salgat on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:32PM (#33308169)
Sure, they can come up with countless weak excuses if they're dead-set on not revealing the real reason, that goes without saying.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by themacguffinman on Sunday October 23, 2022 @01:41PM (#33308693)
No it doesn't go without saying. People will come up with countless weak excuses if their real reason isn't being addressed. That happens because no matter how many weak excuses you address, their real reason remains standing and continues to motivate them to block AI tooling.

If their "real reason" of CP use cases doesn't exist right now because AI tooling explicitly bans CP use cases, they have no reason to block AI tools.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by can16358p on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:08AM (#33307576)
Using the same logic lets ban the sale of kitchen knifes, they can be used for stabbing people.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by pjc50 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:14AM (#33307628)
The UK prohibits the sale of knives to under-16s in the same way as it does cigarettes and alcohol.

We've not even begun to ask the question of whether there are ethical problems of exposing children to unregulated AI and vice versa.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by throwaway382938 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:43AM (#33307799)
I didn't say it's a good reason to not release the models, it's just why I think they aren't being released.

You should strive to respond to the strongest interpretation of what you read and not the weakest one.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dcow on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:06PM (#33307973)
You’re being overly dramatic. People are responding to your argument which was “these things are capable of harm which is why they’re not being released and congress is gonna freak because ethics”. People are highlighting why this is a BS argument, whether you fully espouse it is not really relevant. You presented it so thats what’s being rebutted.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by atq2119 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:06PM (#33309812)
I genuinely suggest you take the time to re-read their comment. Their argument was not that "these things are capable of harm"!

All of us can be tempted into overly quick responses without truly reading what we're responding to.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dcow on Sunday October 23, 2022 @05:01PM (#33310224)
Maybe I drew the wrong conclusion from their comment, but the entire comment is structured under a presumption that AI generated CP is harmful, otherwise why would they have included the whole social political section? If that’s not what was meant then my bad. My point still stands and I don’t think I gave the commenter any grief. I just called an argument that they potentially didn't make BS.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by atq2119 on Tuesday October 25, 2022 @03:30AM (#33327304)
It is structured under the presumption that some people think that AI generated CP is harmful, and AI researcher think that some people think that AI generated CP is harmful, and are afraid of the potential backlash.

The commenter did not necessarily adopt any of these positions themselves.

I agree that you were civil about it and no harm was done other than a bumpier than necessary comment thread.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by simion314 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @10:58AM (#33307485)
>These models are capable of generating photorealistic child pornography. That's why they're not being released.

Is this true, have you seen it or just heard about it? because what I seen is that the AI is bad, the faces are wrong, the fingers are wrong,t he hands and legs are often connected wrong, you can get very often more then 2 legs more then 5 fingers. I seen a community that focus on waifus, this images are not realistic, are obvious carton, animation styles and similar images were created already with digital painting tools.

I also did not seen any porn scene generated by AI, I don't think the model was trained on porn scenes so at best you will get puritans removing breasts from the models, including art , but for sure I want to see how they will ensure that the AI can only generate male nipples and not women ones.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dudeinjapan on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:20AM (#33307665)
...I think you've stumbled onto a new a fetish subculture here.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by simion314 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @01:24PM (#33308565)
not sure what fetish you mean exactly, but is your answer on topic ?

You can retrain SD without NSFW images, is this enough? I suspect not, because what if Timy in his basement trains SD with the face of X and the naked body of Y and then makes a nude image ?

You know what makes rational/logic sense ? |Follow the money, an open source model like SD makes proprietary ones like OpenAI and googles lose ton of money, like a giant pile of money Californian billionaires will lose , so they use their money to create drama.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by throwaway382938 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:42AM (#33307795)
> Is this true, have you seen it or just heard about it?

I have seen it. SD is capable of generating CP that is indistinguishable from a real photograph with correct anatomy.

> I also did not seen any porn scene generated by AI

There are user made SD models trained on porn available for months now.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by simion314 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:34PM (#33308185)
>I have seen it. SD is capable of generating CP that is indistinguishable from a real photograph with correct anatom

You mean a child with no clothes? is that CP? there are painting and art of children with no clothers, or you mean you seen sexual acts too? Since I never seen it with adults , AFAIK SD was not trained with porn scenes , at best you might get realistic breasts but not get realistic sexual organs and add on top the low resolution.

>There are user made SD models trained on porn available for months now.

So you would also have an issue even if SD was 100% SFW because some dude in his basement would train it to generate breasts and dicks and then combine it with SD that can generate faces, so SD should not exist ?

People were drawing porn stuff digitally for decades, now an AI will do the same, maybe you need a better case , CP is still illegal, Google and Apple will snitch on you also so WTF is this hysteria ?

In fact tbe cause of this CP and Google stuff I avoided experimenting with Google colab SD, the AI might paint a monstrosity but Google AI might think is CP and close my accounts.

Also you feailled to respond to my accusation of missing evidence, missing evidence that drawing porn or CP ever caused victims, or more victims then say sending you kid to church.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by f0e4c2f7 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:02AM (#33307512)
There is a move large companies do where after innovating they pull the ladder up behind them by trying to drag regulators into the space. Regulation establishes a moat and allows them to cruise on that innovation until enough external pressure builds up that the dam breaks (people innovating in countries without that regulation for example).

I'm not quite sure what the solution is to this by the way. I don't think the answer is no regulation, but how to improve the quality of regulation.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by imnotreallynew on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:13AM (#33307622)
Is there any evidence that companies (or rather senior staff at those companies) knowingly do that, or is it simply that once some innovation results in a new, large market, a government tries to get involved?
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by akimball on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:45AM (#33307808)
There is a substantial literature documenting regulatory capture in the modern bureaucratic state, but the business model dates back centuries. This is almost like asking for evidence of air.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by karpierz on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:50AM (#33307844)
I think this is conflating two phenomenon. The parent poster was asking:

Do companies push for the creation regulatory bodies to stifle competition?

Whereas regulatory capture is the process by which companies shape existing regulatory bodies to serve their interests. But it presumes the existence of a body to regulate them; regulatory capture can't occur if there isn't regulation to start with.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by f0e4c2f7 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:14PM (#33308034)
You make a good point here that it's not obvious if it's the tail wagging or the dog. I suspect it's both.

This paper may be interesting further reading on the topic of regulatory moats specifically. (I saw your comment below discussing regulatory capture vs this specific subset of capture.)

https://www.nber.org/papers/w26001?sy=001&fbclid=IwAR0oYZBL3...

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by dd36 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:05AM (#33307546)
Name a large company that has successfully done that recently?
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by f0e4c2f7 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:42AM (#33307794)
Yet to be seen if it will be successful yet but Meta lobbying to congress to trim or eliminate section 230 comes to mind as a recent example.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by moralestapia on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:06AM (#33307559)
It's profit all the way-o. Simple as.

As for what they say to the public, well, fraudsters gonna fraud. It's a tale as old as time [1].

1: https://www.biography.com/news/famous-grifters-stealers-swin...

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by no-dr-onboard on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:07AM (#33307563)
As someone who has worked for OpenAI and with Google as a consultant, I completely and wholeheartedly agree.

1. This is absolutely a gatekeeping, ladder pulling measure. 2. The commercial face of this industry is rife with dogmas of self importance. It’s nearly comical.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by chuckster563 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:12AM (#33307604)
These models cost millions of dollars to create. Not only do they have incentive to keep them when the technology has the ability to change industry like alphafold(which alone could have been a multimillion dollar company).

Add to this mix the USA trying to prevent China copying cutting edge AI technology and this was bound to happen sooner or later.

It's no longer research it's near market viability.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by torginus on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:39AM (#33307776)
The Linux kernel or other critical pieces of software infrastructure cost billions to create - yet it is available for free allowing companies to create immense value to society on top of it.

The amount of cool stuff people have created on top of Stable Diffusion since it was created is also amazing and would never have happened if they didn't release the weights.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by odrekf on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:00PM (#33307929)
>The amount of cool stuff people have created on top of Stable Diffusion

Paintings that look like Pepe the frog?

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by 411111111111111 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @02:00PM (#33308845)
Like blender Integration to generate assets for your (graphic) models and and full blown video sequences generated from a single prompt.

The resulting storm of new applications was definitely interesting to watch, though none of em were really market viable with that version of the model.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by 29083011397778 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:30AM (#33307717)
From GP:

> Now, I don't claim everyone should be forced to publish their AI models. No, if you spent lots of money on training your model it is yours. But you can't lock all your work behind closed doors and call yourself open. It doesn't work like this.

Both of you can be right. Just don't try to call yourself open.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by akudha on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:46AM (#33307811)
It is all marketing. Apple patted themselves for their “courage” (hahaha) to remove headphone jacks. I forgot which company it was - they gave some money to charity, but spent 10 times more on ads that highlighted their one good deed of donating money.

Claiming to be “open” while not actually being open is a feature, not a bug. Just business as usual

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ameliaquining on Sunday October 23, 2022 @01:12PM (#33308481)
What's wrong with the charity example? Presumably that money came out of their marketing budget, and if they hadn't spent it on ads highlighting the donation, it would have been spent on some other kind of ads instead.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by fock on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:23AM (#33307674)
> Add to this mix the USA trying to prevent China copying cutting edge AI technology

ML-tech from the past century seems to work just fine for killing each other (have a look at Ukraine). I would be rather more concerned about the foe having better batteries at this point.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by chuckster563 on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:41AM (#33307785)
Does it never interest you that the US have never discussed what types of AI models it has produced?

What do you think unlimited funds dumped into AI for military applications can do?

The US KNOWS this is a big deal, so much so that it has destroyed China's ability to conduct top end research.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by akudha on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:49AM (#33307837)
Genuinely curious - what more weapons do we need? Especially western superpowers? Do we not have enough weaponry to destroy this planet million times over?

What more destructive power can AI provide, beyond the already existing drones/biological etc etc?

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ben_w on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:14PM (#33308033)
Now you can, but 120 years ago the British Empire ruled the waves with no reason to think battleships or cavalry would ever be obsolete.

The machine gun and trench warfare forced the development of the tank.

Once aircraft became military useful, battleships were rapidly vulnerable to aircraft and hence aircraft carriers.

I can imagine replacing naval mines with normally-quiescent remote-triggered torpedoes that are scattered on the seafloor a decade in advance.

How effective are troops against 3D printed drones designed to mimic animals (including birds), but which have a short-range firearm and some computer vision? Or engineered mosquitoes with the bare minimum of remote control, perhaps similar to the "cyborg cockroach" kits that have been on sale for about 9 years now? (Or just weaponise those 'roaches…)

What happens if you can predict what a command officer will say, use an AI to fake a their voice before they've spoken, and interfere with the communications to give misleading orders in the heat of combat? Doesn't even need to be a big change to the orders to alter the outcome.

(Obviously everything I've thought of in 5 minutes, the actual military will have categorised into "haha no" and "let's wargame this scenario"; I assume mostly the former).

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ted_bunny on Sunday October 23, 2022 @06:21PM (#33310845)
Can I preorder your novel?
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ben_w on Monday October 24, 2022 @08:25AM (#33315776)
I'm redoing the final two chapters before I even look for a publisher. But I've been at it (in my spare time) for six years, so don't hold your breath.

(I'm not sure if your reply was a thumbs-up or a serious question, but that's a serious answer).

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ted_bunny on Monday October 24, 2022 @12:41PM (#33319006)
It was both. I'm glad you're making the effort, whether it's in limbo or not!
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ben_w on Monday October 24, 2022 @04:44PM (#33322455)
Thanks, I appreciate the boost ^_^
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by philwelch on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:06PM (#33307969)
It’s not a question of destructive power. Destroying the earth has no strategic value because we need the earth. But there are a number of other problems that need to be solved, such as gathering and analyzing intelligence, precision strikes that harm the enemy while sparing friendlies and civilians, and so forth that have not been perfected.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Turing_Machine on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:20PM (#33309918)
> Do we not have enough weaponry to destroy this planet million times over?

You do understand that there are nuances here, yes? In other words, that there are military operations that lie somewhere between "do nothing" and "destroy the entire world"?

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by expoonsiveai on Sunday October 23, 2022 @12:01PM (#33307935)
> These models cost millions of dollars to create.

It's reasonable that it's fair use to train on unlicensed, freely available data as long as the model is released. I don't know anything about the law or care much about the legal stuff, but that's my opinion for how it should be.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by Turing_Machine on Sunday October 23, 2022 @04:18PM (#33309907)
> These models cost millions of dollars to create.

Kodak had billions-with-a-b of dollars invested in the production of photographic film.

That didn't save them from competitors.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by disparate_dan on Monday October 24, 2022 @08:44AM (#33315941)
I guess it depends on how you define competitors. I think they protected themselves from people playing against their strengths (ie photographic film), but failed to prepare against disruption from left field.
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by silvestrov on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:51AM (#33307855)
This of how dangerous it will be if everybody can write a book. We must limit bookwriting to only educated and responsible people with the proper education in ethics and morals. /s

This happends with every new technology.

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by loa_in_ on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:57AM (#33307892)
Except nobody has issues when the tech is meant to exploit somebody but isn't public. The morality angle disappears with sunlight
Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by ben_w on Sunday October 23, 2022 @11:56AM (#33307884)
The actual quality of the currently public models is why they decided to release them.

The worst case scenario of the currently public models is why they want to take it slow.

It's like the lottery in one of the episodes of the TV show Sliders: you probably won't win, but if you do win, you die.

Unfortunately, most people are really bad at grokking probably, and, by extension, risk, especially in scenarios like this.

> Bad actors will have enough money/lack scruples to train their own models or to steal your best ones regardless how "impact conscious" your company it.

Indeed, totally correct.

But this is also on the list titled "why AI alignment is hard and why we need to go slow because we have not solved these things yet".

Saying "it doesn't matter if we keep this secret, someone else will publish anyway" is exactly the same failure mode as "it doesn't matter if we keep polluting, someone else will pollute anyway".

Re:Ask HN: Is Anyone Else Tired of the Self Enforced Limits ... by hintymad on Sunday October 23, 2022 @01:19PM (#33308532)
As history repeated shows, righteousness works really well. I don't have to painstakingly make the nuanced arguments. Instead, I can simply cite "social responsibility" or whatever social justice in fashion or simply attack my critique's morality.