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Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by hintymad on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @08:50PM (#33089492)
I also noticed smart people type really fast (if they can touch type) and can switch between multiple windows/tabs fast too. It's not because their fingers move faster than normal people, but because their mind moves smoothly so they can produce a long string of command with stopping to think.

> as fast as any 20 year old. I I certainly hope so. Though I think it's more likely that Knuth can be as fast as other 20-year olds, but not as the 20-year old of himself.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by eichin on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @09:39PM (#33089961)
As someone whose computing career was improved by learning to touch-type in grade school (Mom had been a secretary, saw that these "personal" computers had keyboards, and bludgeoned the high school to let me in to the summer-school typing class) it's not actually the speed that matters - though that does certainly impress people - it's that it's "automatic". If you're not thinking about letters and where they are, you aren't distracted from the entire sentence (or function) you're holding in your head - it just pours out through your hands into the machine.

(Sometimes I joke about how my hands know emacs, not my brain - but if someone asks me what keys I hit for something, my fingers move and then I work backwards from that.)

(And if you're collecting correlations - I have no musical performance talent at all and have spent maybe 10 hours total poking at musical keyboards - for me, typing is all typing, I expect musical keyboarding is a related but parallel thing, not the same thing.)

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by phtrivier on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @06:15AM (#33093468)
There is however a terrible effect on productivity and self-respect when you have to switch keyboard layout for any reason.

I'm still one month into switching to a macbook, and I now dread cutting and pasting. Oh, and typing "pipe", too.

I wonder how long it will take my 40+ years old brain and hands to get their act together...

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by blueblob on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @08:46AM (#33094780)
I feel this in my soul. My work uses Mac and I'm not used to it. Fn and cmd keys block my reach for alt and control in my vim sessions and make it awkward to go through tabs in the browser with the keyboard.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by serjester on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @11:48AM (#33097087)
Why not just use an external keyboard? I had the opposite problem until I bought a Magic Keyboard to use at work.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by blueblob on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @11:54AM (#33097156)
I work from home and have very limited desk space. Great idea though.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by phtrivier on Monday October 10, 2022 @02:02PM (#33154509)
Fun fact : I have an external keyboard, but it's an MS one, so there is no more drivers, and some keys just won't work (or at least I haven't yet found anyway to remap things.)

Shrug, I guess ?

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by codyb on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @09:39PM (#33103341)
Hmm, I switched to Dvorak in about a month… you just use it till you stop having to think about it, no?
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by cbm-vic-20 on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @09:39AM (#33095434)
I'm an oldster who just got a split ergonomic keyboard for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I'm going through the exact same experience. It's getting better, but my typing/coding speed has been cut in half as I unlearn bad typing habits accumulated over the decades.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by smugma on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @06:46AM (#33093699)
Even for MacBooks of the same generation, there’s a (significant, for me) hit when going from a US Mac keyboard to a UK one (enter key is all off).
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by tbjgolden on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @06:01PM (#33101743)
Had the same issue recently, with the caveat that I grew up in the UK, then moved to US and back.

I prefer the concept of international standardisation to an American layout in pretty much all areas, with the exception of the keyboard layout; ANSI layouts are far more friendly - for programming, at least. Not just the enter key but the left shift too.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by porbelm on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @08:35AM (#33094644)
Switched to US layout on everything (because brackets and gt / lt are SO much more conveniently placed) and having to use an ISO keyboard now is just pain. My hands forgot.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by kzrdude on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @10:27AM (#33095995)
Not a joke, my fingers and brain know vim and I don't. Often have to try it out to know what command I'm actually using.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by smugma on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @06:44AM (#33093683)
One of the smartest people I met as an undergrad at Berkeley was a theoretical chemistry PhD student. He was an extremely slow typist, with mostly hunt and peck. It would be frustrating for me because it would be like 1/4 my comfortable speed (20 vs. 80 wpm?). But being slow there made him faster, because he’d spend a little more time before typing thinking about what to type.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by icambron on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @11:00AM (#33096414)
I’ve always had the opposite experience. When I am unable to type well I am massively less effective. This happened when switched from emacs to vim, or got a new keyboard with a weird layout, or broke my thumb, or, hell, anytime I use a phone.

First there’s the cognitive overhead involved with the task itself, as opposed to letting your fingers do the work while you think about real stuff. Second, when you’re slow at typing, typing becomes the bottleneck more often, and your brain is sometimes idling waiting for your typing to catch up. Your brain has the hard part; it should always be the bottleneck. Third, typing fast gives you more options, because you don’t consider “how long will this take me to type out?” when considering different approaches to some immediate challenge. If opening a REPL and evaluating something is going to take you five minutes, you might not do it.

I suspect your friend was a fast worker despite being a slow typist. If he learned to touch-type, he could always have spent the same time thinking as he does now then less time and effort actually typing it.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by smugma on Thursday October 06, 2022 @12:49AM (#33104500)
I understand what you're saying and often feel that way. I think one point to be taken away is not to judge capabilities of X (say, programming) based on Y (typing speed).

However, sometimes I have the opposite desire. I can type on a normal keyboard at 80-90 wpm. On an iPhone I'm probably 1/4-1/3 of that. However, I probably spend 60-90 minutes a day reading/writing emails from my phone. Sometimes going slower allows you go to faster.

> Your brain has the hard part; it should always be the bottleneck.

Or maybe not. Lots of famous people (particularly physicists) talk about the importance of letting the mind wander i.e. the opposite of making sure it's the bottleneck.

I'm a slow phone typist but it's still easy to do. My brain can still think of the next thing to write, or wander.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by klik99 on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @08:59PM (#33089577)
Interesting - I do this but I learned the skill from sight reading music scores - you have to be playing several bars behind what you’re reading so the skill is in going into autopilot with your fingers as you read. No small coincidence then that Knuth is an organist
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by gumby on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @09:20PM (#33089811)
> No small coincidence then that Knuth is an organist

Also great on the harpsichord and piano.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by tartoran on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @12:41AM (#33091325)
Id love to listen to Knuth perform his instruments. Can this be found on youtube?
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by offByJuan on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @10:25AM (#33095970)
Just search Knuth organ on youtube an you get several hits
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by vario on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @10:12PM (#33090218)
Google and Youtube often think I am a robot because of how fast I operate on their sites: typing, clicking, switching tabs etc..
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by mgkimsal on Tuesday October 04, 2022 @11:49PM (#33090968)
I wish modern OS could keep up with my typing and window switching and app launching and ...

I'm constantly perturbed and interrupted when some app window just 'hangs' for a few seconds (some garbage collection going on, probably?). I can't pinpoint any one thing, just... everything seems relatively slow in 2022 compared to, even 10 years ago, and certainly 20. Applications weren't always phoning home to check things during bootup, which I suspect happens a lot now. Our computers are dozens of times faster than in the 90s, and, computationally, some things get done much faster, but others - around UI, it seems - apparently regress.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by int_19h on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @05:27PM (#33101436)
The worst are the modern async UIs that become responsive early and then reset their state when they fully load - so if you e.g. already typed part of your search string, you can actually briefly see it in the textbox, and then it gets cleared away. Very common on websites, somewhat common on the desktop, in my experience.

Ironically, the old apps that just "hang" for a while during initialization handle this better, because they don't process input at all, so it all just gets queued.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by dachryn on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @02:30AM (#33092002)
there is a reason linux systems with i3 window managers are getting super popular these days. It's all about the instant response
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by P5fRxh5kUvp2th on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @05:47AM (#33093274)
I've been using i3 for years, there's just nothing that compares to a tiling window.

If I'm in windows I use virtuawin with alt+1, alt+2, etc for switching desktops. Not nearly the same, but works so much better than the builtin crap Windows has.

Paradoxically, I don't use alt+tab in windows to switch between programs. I used to do that, but then around XP (I think) they added the ability for programs to inject themselves into the alt+tab list. That means it's no longer completely consistent, which means I now have to think and check what alt+tab actually does so it stopped being any faster than just using the mouse.

So now if I need to flip between them quickly I'll either put them on different monitors (I use 3) and/or put them on different desktops. The combination makes me effectively as productive without the use of alt+tab. And it feels similar-ish to i3, so it's a bit comfortable in that respect as well.

NOTE: Anyone thinking virtuawin is like i3, it's not. It's just the best virtual desktop on windows (imo of course). Nothing on windows comes close to i3.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by lmpdev on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @12:07AM (#33091105)
This makes me wonder if real time operating systems might one day become popular as interfaces for powerusers
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by avar on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @02:24AM (#33091967)
Because power users tired of slow userspace will want their kernel to be slow too?
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by globular-toast on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @09:08AM (#33095066)
Latency is the worst thing when operating any machinery. I don't know why people tolerate it so much with computers. It's one of the most important things for me when using any software. That's why a long time ago I settled on using tools like emacs, git, i3/sway etc. When I try trendy tools like VSCode etc. I can't believe the latency people put up with.
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by coder4life on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:34PM (#33116435)
> vario 1 day ago | flag| favorite | root | parent | prev | next [–] [collapse root]

VSCode has a pretty bad latency problem, and it's the reason I stay away and use Notepad++ or VS2022. Sublime if on Mac.

I use git on the command line. My largest bitch is when it says "invalid command. you typed 'statsu', the closest command to this is 'status'"

Kill me now - it's a non-destructive command, and you KNOW what I was trying to say!

Those mishaps don't happen in IDEs.

Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by coder4life on Thursday October 06, 2022 @09:36PM (#33116454)
Preach it - my inability to figure out or control why the UI decides it's time to ignore what I'm typing in realtime while it's trying to back up a file (or whatever) is the cause of so many frustrations
Re:Knuth's Art of Computer Programming, V 4B, has gone into ... by smugma on Wednesday October 05, 2022 @06:46AM (#33093705)
I hope you never use the stock iOS calculator, which still eats keystrokes.