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Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by bastardoperator on Friday September 23, 2022 @05:08PM (#32957103)
So, you weren't forced and instead opted out is what you're saying here in your opening sentence?
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by btown on Friday September 23, 2022 @05:20PM (#32957228)
I think the deeper question is: Are you truly being allowed to opt out if you can't disable (or aren't ever prompted to disable without knowing an arcane set of menus) the UI elements (e.g. the aforementioned prompts on password fields, or the prompt to install an app whenever opening the mobile web version of a site) that serve as an advertisement for the specific service?

To be sure, this isn't just restricted to "please install this" dark patterns, and in certain ways it's been central to the ad-supported business model ever since the first television ad was shown on a network channel. But arguably we shouldn't give any of these examples credit for truthfully being "opt out."

Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by yjftsjthsd-h on Friday September 23, 2022 @05:27PM (#32957319)
I guess if you define "forced" as "completely 100% impossible to avoid or prevent" then yes. But I think it's reasonable to say that "forced" is acceptable shorthand for "coerced by dark patterns in such a way that 99% of actual users will end up doing what the vendor wants whether they want to or not".
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by encryptluks2 on Friday September 23, 2022 @07:50PM (#32958431)
You get prompted once on Windows unless you use Edge again. I don't think that would be considered force either. Force would be like a prompt on every reboot or whenever you opened Firefox.
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by ht85 on Friday September 23, 2022 @08:14PM (#32958593)
That's not true. Major patches all have some dialog full of dark pattern suggesting you browse with the most secure, bestest browser. Within the last year I've had multiple family / friends ask me how to get back to their normal browser, not knowing why Edge was now launching by default whenever they clicked a link.

Edge even has special behavior to show you the same bullshit when you try to download another browser [1] [2]. But no worries, they might get a slap on the wrist for it.

[1] https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-edge-chrome-2008/

[2] https://www.debugpoint.com/edge-messages-controversy/

Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by dmitriid on Saturday September 24, 2022 @03:59AM (#32960592)
On windows searching from windows search box opens edge, not the default browser. Edge is advertised in the start menu. Etc.
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by iggldiggl on Friday September 23, 2022 @05:39PM (#32957431)
For a few things (the one thing I'm familiar with is the lock screen if you've left the "show random pretty pictures" option turned on, but I think there are a few more places besides that) Microsoft does force links to open in Edge instead of the default browser.
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by InitialLastName on Friday September 23, 2022 @05:57PM (#32957610)
- Any links from many Microsoft apps (including searches in the Start Menu that silently turn into web searches)

- PDFs (sometimes, even if you don't have Edge set as your default PDF app) (even though Edge is actually the least unusable non-paid PDF viewer for Windows)

Besides that, Edge will randomly reset itself as the default on updates.

Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by russnes on Saturday September 24, 2022 @12:45AM (#32959800)
For PDFs you should try this bad boy https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by InitialLastName on Saturday September 24, 2022 @03:47PM (#32965998)
Sumatra is a phenomenal viewer, but its annotation management is miles short of the "write directly on the page" convenience that Edge achieves.
Re:Mozilla claims Apple, Google and Microsoft force users to... by RunSet on Saturday September 24, 2022 @03:31PM (#32965842)
SumatraPDF singlehandedly makes the format readable for me. The alternatives are complete rubbish- in other words, worthy of Adobe.