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Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by jstanley on Sunday September 11, 2022 @11:27AM (#32800441)
> If it’s a ccTLD (2 characters) not of your own country, don’t take it. Eligibility rules routinely change and you could get kicked out overnight. UK residents lost eligibility to .eu with Brexit for instance.

But British people were in the EU when they bought their domains. More generally, even if you pick a ccTLD of a country that you live in, how are you supposed to predict whether your specific area will split off and become a separate country?

I think ideally in those cases the people running the Internet infrastructure should be compassionate rather than spiteful, and just let you keep your old domain even if they won't let you register new ones. But that's obviously not what happens.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by thiht on Sunday September 11, 2022 @11:35AM (#32800515)
The EU was spiteful in this case, but that was expected. To be fair, they gave British registrants at least 1 year of grace period to migrate their domains to a new TLD, it didn’t happen overnight in this case.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by talideon on Sunday September 11, 2022 @01:01PM (#32801269)
The EU was not being spiteful in the slightest. .EU domains are intended for entities within the EEA. When the UK left, UK-based entities no long had that entitlement, unless you believe you that the UK as a third country deserves to be treated differently from every other one.

A year's grace was pretty generous, and has the domains been transferred to an EEA-based entity (such as a subsidiary based in the EEA or an EEA-based proxy, which is a service some .EU registrars provide), then they could keep them.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by fennecfoxen on Sunday September 11, 2022 @02:36PM (#32802099)
A domain name is intended to represent something. It shows up in identifiers and addresses such as the Uniform Resource Locator and email addresses. It's better for basically-everyone-in-the-world if that representation and those addresses have a measure of stability.

If it's not actively "spiteful" to impair stability, when the only cost is an ever-so-modest impact to brand purity, then at the very least it's a short-sighted way to cause a deadweight economic loss to humanity.

I guess that's just what rule-by-bureaucracy does, though, including EU bureaucracy: every day, they make decisions that affect people, always bringing the greatest possible reverence for the rules, and paying as little regard as possible to the price of the consequences of their decisions, which are fundamentally someone else's problem.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by brnt on Sunday September 11, 2022 @03:46PM (#32802625)
You still don't get what Brexit exactly is, it looks like. It was a one sided drastic withdrawal from any and all EU institutions, and yes, that includes the TLD.

Amazing how you would think that your particular field of work would be excepted.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by necovek on Sunday September 11, 2022 @09:54PM (#32805125)
What about a UK person who voted "no" to Brexit and who might have been a proud holder of their personal .eu domain for a dozen years?

I guess the point is that one should only go with commercial domain names, and never with political ones (which all country code TLDs are by definition).

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by brnt on Monday September 12, 2022 @02:02AM (#32806600)
> What about a UK person who voted "no"

The nature of democracy is that you don't always get your way.

Barnier kept the door open for all kinds of intermediate levels of association, but the British delegation kept saying no and pushing for hard Brexit. Well, that's what they got.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by hunterb123 on Sunday September 11, 2022 @05:18PM (#32803355)
> it was a one sided drastic withdrawal

a couple of opinionated words there that you didn't support.

drastic for sure is false as it took quite awhile to go through, much longer than the merger in fact.

For my opinionated sentence I will say... Britain is better off, the EU is an abomination.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by d1sxeyes on Monday September 12, 2022 @06:34AM (#32808164)
I don't think there are any opinionated words there.

The definition of 'drastic' does not necessarily mean quick (although it can). Definitions of drastic include (collected variously from Oxford, Cambridge, and Merriam-Webster dictionaries): 'having very noticeable effects', 'likely to have a strong or far-reaching effect', and 'extreme in effect [...]'.

I think Brexit fits this definition.

With regards to your opinionated sentence, you are entitled to your opinion that the EU is an 'abomination', although it is just an opinion without any support, and it's provably incorrect that Britain 'IS' better off (although an argument can be made that the potential long term benefits of Brexit may outweigh the current short term negative impact, it's far from being certain, and definitely should not be discussed in the present tense).

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by Gordonjcp on Sunday September 11, 2022 @03:42PM (#32802603)
Think of it as like a visa. If your visa runs out, you no longer have the right to be in the country you're in, and you need to leave. You don't have to go home - you can go to another country with different requirements - but you can't stay.

The UK government fucked everyone over with Brexit, largely because they didn't care to think about the consequences.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by fennecfoxen on Sunday September 11, 2022 @04:35PM (#32803038)
> Think of it as like a visa.

Yes! A visa! Thank you! The strident heart and soul of the inhuman, inhumane, soulless bureaucracy. It is exactly like that.

This isn't exactly something to be lauded or celebrated! Have you ever dealt with having a visa? Have you ever been impacted by the uncertainty and confusion of the nation you are living in, changing its rules about your visa? Do you have any concept at all of the economic and the humanitarian impact of the bureaucracy's machinations around and involving visas? Even aside from the worst of that, have you ever abandoned a job and friends and the life you were trying to build somewhere, because someone changed the rules about visas? I liked that job, sir.

Oh, let me tell you about visas! I will tell you about them all day long. But, ah — I think it was a more flattering to the decision-makers when we were just talking about the cost of broken URLs and email addresses.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by Terretta on Sunday September 11, 2022 @05:22PM (#32803394)
Should one live in a high tax high social safety net country while paying tax to a low tax low social safety net country or not paying tax at all? I’d argue visas have real value in helping to manage that problem, and are, therefore, neither inhuman nor inhumane.

And then yes, like visa recognition agreements, if your country withdraws from a visa accord or economic region, the host country has no obligation to keep you credentialed, or domained. If unhappy about such thing, a more effective path is to activate compatriots against the withdrawal, rather than fuss at the host zone.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by fennecfoxen on Sunday September 11, 2022 @06:48PM (#32804007)
> Should one live in a high tax high social safety net country while paying tax to a low tax low social safety net country or not paying tax at all?

My friend, if these systems were just about aligning the incentives for workers and benefits and taxes, and otherwise tried to be understanding about human foibles, then people wouldn't point to immigration systems around the world as a Kafkaesque nightmare.

Just to pick an example — chosen for my familiarity, wholly outside of and unrelated to Brexit — the UK's Windrush scandal involved the bureaucracy actively destroying old records of immigration from British overseas possessions (particularly the Caribbean), then deciding years later to go after people who had been living in the country for decades — demanding they supply exhaustive documentation of their legal immigration, and their life and activities in the intervening time. Rest assured that this was a fully adversarial process! They did not offer to help anyone so affected gather these documents, or to make their case.

And later, in another unrelated scandal, the Home Office decided to react to an English-examination cheating scandal by analyzing everyone's examination results with some opaque computerized process, using the results to declare something like 97% of them as invalid cheaters — and sending nastygrams to about 9,700 university students, calling them dirty cheaters and demanding they leave country. Many of them did, and they forcibly removed others. Notably, they did not ask for them to re-sit the exam. They did not care about the lives ruined.

Of course the matter of the .eu domain is absolutely nothing compared to the daily nightmare that is "visas," but the same devotion to rules and insensitivity to the costs of policy runs through the matter. They could have grandfathered in existing domains, at least a little bit longer. I know that if I had a website and I had to move domains, I would want to run web and email forwarding for more than one year. If they wanted to be particular about just having the forwarding, they could have audited the sites to make sure that they were just redirects, and charged for the privilege. They didn't. There's no sane reason that couldn't happen except to preserve The Rules — but these rules simply are not a valuable end in and of themselves, despite the laud and honor they have received in this thread.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by brnt on Monday September 12, 2022 @08:47AM (#32809312)
The Britisch delegation insisted on a hard Brexit time after time. It's what they got. Just like how EU residents who move outside of the EU lose the right to a .EU, the Brits did too.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by fennecfoxen on Monday September 12, 2022 @09:04AM (#32809526)
Aaaaand we're back to the "serves-them-right" lowkey spiteful angle. I don't know, if I were a member in good standing of some Institution(TM) that is supposed to look out for me and work for my interests, and my government decided one day to throw me under the bus, I'd prefer the Institution(TM) didn't try its utmost to pitch in and throw me under the bus too. I hope you never face a similar problem in your life.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by staticman2 on Monday September 12, 2022 @09:34AM (#32809979)
The eligibity rules to be a member of the institutions existed before Brexit.

Funny how applying the eligibility the rules to you as they do to everyone else in the world who is not a member of the EU is seen as spiteful by you.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by fennecfoxen on Monday September 12, 2022 @10:12AM (#32810574)
You know what, sir? You've convinced me. You're right. There's not any special spite in Europe's motiviations. It's just like that. Its a way of being, and its people are statists who like it being like that.

So I wish you all the best of luck as your continent, now deprived of the economic impulse of cheap Russian gas, discovers the true weight of its overbearing and inflexible regulatory state, and deindustrializes with a scale and speed never seen before in human history (already ArcelorMittal is importing iron from the US rust belt, of all places!!!). And I'm actually, legitimately, genuinely sorry for everything the populist backlash is going to do as things fall apart, because I expect it to be very ugly.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by staticman2 on Monday September 12, 2022 @11:29AM (#32811829)
I don't think you are making a prediction so much as screaming "A plague on your house for not making special rules that favor me." Good day.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by brnt on Monday September 12, 2022 @09:04AM (#32809531)
It's not spiteful serves them right, it is what hard Brexit means, what was asked for.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by necovek on Sunday September 11, 2022 @09:48PM (#32805069)
I've once been denied a visitor visa for having "insufficient funds to support myself during my stay" (in Flemish, for the FOSDEM weekend) even though I submitted my bank statement with upwards of 10k EUR of holdings, my company supporting letter claiming to be paying for the entire trip, paid-for flight tickets and hotel booking, etc. I already had like a dozen visas for other Schengen/EU countries in my passport (all for short stays, because that's how they roll — I kept changing my passports because I kept running out of pages for the EU visas in them).

Visas are an imperfect tool for whatever they are designed to do, and any sufficiently advanced bureaucracy will develop ways to misuse such a gift.

They are a complete mess, especially so from the EU countries. US and UK have been more reasonable (no hard requirements of what documentation is needed, as long as you can prove that you are travelling with an actual purpose, and once granted, it's for at least 6 months for UK or 3 years in case of the US), but luckily we've entered the Schengen whitelist since.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by talideon on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:45AM (#32807845)
> Yes! A visa! Thank you! The strident heart and soul of the inhuman, inhumane, soulless bureaucracy. It is exactly like that.

Ah yes. Because the UK isn't planning on sending refugees in Rwanda. /s

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by talideon on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:41AM (#32807825)
No, you left the club. Once you leave the club, you're not entitled to the benefits.

You're expecting the UK to be treated specially.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by blitzar on Sunday September 11, 2022 @02:21PM (#32801964)
My previous employer was similarly spiteful, when I quit they stopped paying my wages. Totally unreasonable and out of absolutely nowhere, they didnt even warn me, just refused to deposit the paycheques into my account every month. Not even a year grace period or anything.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by unity1001 on Sunday September 11, 2022 @12:46PM (#32801159)
> The EU was spiteful in this case

That logic defies description. If you are not a member of a certain country or economic zone, you cannot get and keep that zone's exclusive domains. Thats law. What you are saying is that the Eu should have made an exception for the Brits and allowed them to keep doing what others are not allowed. That sounds like too much exceptionalist entitlement.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by fpoling on Sunday September 11, 2022 @02:15PM (#32801908)
This is similar to Norway rules. By the law only legal entities registered in Norway can have .no domain. If an organization cease to exist or stops to have a legal presence in the country then the domain must be returned within one year.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by teddyh on Sunday September 11, 2022 @04:21PM (#32802935)
Not that that changes anything; everybody who wants to register a .no domain simply hires a local proxy to “own” the domain for them. Most registrars offers this as a service, and as an end customer you don’t have to know anything about it.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by adolph on Sunday September 11, 2022 @09:21PM (#32804861)
That’s not law. It might be how the EU manages their own ccTLD, and there may be an EU rule for it, but it isn’t a transnational law. For example:

In 2010, nearly 10% of the revenue of the Government of Tuvalu came from royalties from .tv addresses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.tv

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by manuelmoreale on Sunday September 11, 2022 @11:36PM (#32805801)
They’re not wrong in saying that that’s the law. Maybe as you say it’s not law in traditional sense but the requirements are quite clear.

> You may register a .eu, .ею or .ευ domain name if you fulfil the following criteria:

> You represent an organisation established in one of the European Union Member States; or Iceland, Liechtenstein or Norway. You are an individual residing in one of the European Union Member States, Iceland, Liechtenstein, or Norway, or a citizen of one of the European Union Member States, Iceland, Liechtenstein, or Norway (as of 2 August 2021).

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by d1sxeyes on Monday September 12, 2022 @06:37AM (#32808181)
It's EU law, which by definition makes it 'transnational' law.

There's nothing which requires the EU to impose that law, but it is law nevertheless.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by adolph on Monday September 12, 2022 @03:30PM (#32815577)
I apologize if my comment was pedantic as we don't disagree. The parent quote is "If you are not a member of a certain country or economic zone, you cannot get and keep that zone's exclusive domains. Thats law." While the context is the EU, the parent made a claim larger than the EU, which is not correct.

It would be different if the parent had written "If you are not a member of the EU. . ." but that was not what was written.

Likewise, an EU law that governs only EU assets isn't transnational. For example, Poland doesn't have eligibility criteria [0] but French ccTLDs like .pm do [1]. As I read the restriction text I detect a touch of the spite referred to elsewhere as it has exceptions for other non-EU-member European countries: "Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein"

0. https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/cctld/pl/index.html

1. https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/cctld/pm/index.html

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by d1sxeyes on Monday September 12, 2022 @05:10PM (#32817022)
Those are the single market countries, it’s not unusual to see those four as exceptions, but I take your point, OP could have been more precise.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by unity1001 on Monday September 12, 2022 @09:05AM (#32809538)
If there is an Eu rule for something, its the Eu law. Regulations work like that.
Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by Symbiote on Sunday September 11, 2022 @12:14PM (#32800872)
.EU domains were always restricted to entities in the EEA.

I don't know how useful that is in practise, but it's not the only CCTLD with this restriction.

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by d1sxeyes on Monday September 12, 2022 @06:20AM (#32808055)
There was no spite in it - or at least if there were any spite in it, the UK was party to it when the legislation was originally written back in 2002 - when the UK was a member state, and Brexit was not even a whisper.

The UK helped to implement the following regulations on who can register for a .eu TLD at that time:

(i) undertaking having its registered office, central administration or principal place of business within the Community, or

(ii) organisation established within the Community without prejudice to the application of national law, or

(iii) natural person resident within the Community;

(Regulation (EC) No 733/2002 of the European Parliament and of the Council, Article 4 (2) (b))

There were some amendments in 2019, but the meaning is broadly the same as the original draft (at least in this context). The key relevant change is the addition an entitlement for EU citizens who are not resident in the EU (e.g.: those who live in the UK).

Re:What's the cheapest domain you can register for 10 years? by noAnswer on Sunday September 11, 2022 @05:08PM (#32803281)
Lets see what will happen to Scottish .uk domains when they leave.