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Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by cookiengineer on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:46PM (#32757406)
Most companies that relied on "cheap gas supplies" for heat generation are affected. Every manufacturing process that needs a high temperature oven for melting metal, for example, is highly affected by the gas supply. Due to gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia right now, that's not gonna change soon.

The CDU sold us out to Russia, and it's not gonna change immediately. What we can do now is plan accordingly, and try to move to solar power as soon as possible. And by that I mean, yesterday.

Bills exploded for private households, social media shows regularly pictures of ridiculous bills like 1600EUR+ for a month of heat for a simple family household. That's where it's at right now. Lots of people laugh or mock at the plus of 18EUR/month for Kindergeld that you can now get, because it's basically worthless in comparison.

Prepare yourselves, this is going to be a war of cyber and energy. In my personal opinion it's inevitable, because Putin and his propaganda of the supposed "growing Nazism in Central Europe" has been going on for decades after the revolution attempt of the opposition. It's only a matter of time until Putin wants a strategically easier-to-defend Moscow, because the mountains in Poland and Finland sure look juicy to him.

Always keep in mind: Whoever controls the oil and gas supply, controls the planet economically. The reason for the invasion of the North-East Ukraine was the oil fields, and the independence of oil supply for Europe was too high a risk for Putin's strategical control over the European Union.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by epolanski on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:12PM (#32757740)
> to gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia

So after we funded Ukraine's war, sanctioned Russia into oblivion, froze hundreds of billions $ of their money, forced our companies to leave their market, and even seized their belongings it's them weaponizing assets?

I'm all for the sanctions and support, but making Russia the bad guy for our economic crisis because they are retaliating sanctions is really biased. It's not a weapon, it's a trade and they leave money on the table everyday. Lots of money.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by themitigating on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:20PM (#32757845)
"Both sides both sides"

Russia is the bad guy for both the war and their reaction to the sanctions. Your comment is like saying "don't get mad at a criminal for shooting at the police chasing him".

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by paganel on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:35PM (#32758043)
> at the police chasing him"

Just so that we're clear, calling the West as "the police" as you do with your analogy just reinforces Russia's claim that we now live in a unipolar world, of which the US is the policeman (hence Russia's desire to split it all into a multi-polar world, no police chasing bad guys without international due-process there).

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by themitigating on Thursday September 08, 2022 @11:26AM (#32766983)
My analogy was good vs evil not policing. Defending the invasion of another country is also not policing
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Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by dang on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:53PM (#32758985)
Please don't take HN threads further into hellish flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for, and we end up having to ban accounts that do it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by dang on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:55PM (#32759008)
Please don't take HN threads further into hellish flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for, and we end up having to ban accounts that do it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by gdy on Thursday September 08, 2022 @06:25AM (#32763603)
Sorry
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Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by dang on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:55PM (#32759005)
Please don't take HN threads further into hellish flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for, and we end up having to ban accounts that do it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by scrollaway on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:35PM (#32758759)
None of these conflicts justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Nothing in the world justifies a Russian invasion of Ukraine, because this isn't the 18th fucking century.

Stop trying to justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by azth on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:52PM (#32758974)
Where’s he justifying it? He’s simply pointing out the double standards when the West policies the world how they can get away with whatever atrocities they want.

Plus, you furthered his point by calling the western atrocious as “conflicts”.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by bilvar on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:41PM (#32758108)
Where were EUs sanctions when the “police” was massacring people all over the Middle East multiple times?
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by themitigating on Thursday September 08, 2022 @11:24AM (#32766955)
Whataboutism, unrelated to this situation
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by MrRiddle on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:04PM (#32758369)
That doesn’t count, that was a mistake /s
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by epolanski on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:35PM (#32758050)
It's not whataboutism.

It's ridiculous to me we went all in on sanctions pretending they would bend over and keep doing business with us, but only on things we want them to, after we deny them machinery, computers, software, cars and steal/freeze their assets.

Your analogy doesn't work, we aren't police and they are not shooting, they quit doing business and decided they are okay without our money.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by zx85wes on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:35PM (#32758767)
"we" didn't want them to do business with us. See "MEPs demand full embargo on Russian imports of oil, coal, nuclear fuel and gas" https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220401IP... The US had to intervene to stop this.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by topher6345 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:26PM (#32757917)
Russian could end the sanctions by choosing to withdraw their invasion. Withdrawing is the win/win for everyone.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by zx85wes on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:36PM (#32758773)
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by nl on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:36PM (#32758059)
This is the first time I've ever heard a Russia apologist even try to call it "Ukraine's war". Almost like it's a surprise Ukraine fought back when Russia invaded.

Even Putin was honest enough to call it an invasion and limited his lies to attempts to justify it.

Yes retaliation for sanctions can be expected. But Russia is still the bad actor here.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by epolanski on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:51PM (#32758224)
Call a Russia apologist someone else.

As stated, I support both supporting Ukraine and the sanctions.

That doesn't make our policy makers any less ridiculous and short sighted in their expectations.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by nl on Friday September 09, 2022 @03:12AM (#32776245)
In retrospect I suspect you might be a non-native English speaker? ("Call a Russia apologist someone else" would normally be written "Call someone else a Russian apologist").

In English "Ukraine's war" give the ownership of the war to Ukraine, making them responsible for it.

If this isn't your intent then good, and I apologize for calling you a Russian apologist.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by bilvar on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:27PM (#32757945)
This. It’s quite saddening to realise Western people are as brainwashed by govts and media as much as the Russians are.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by Tade0 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:37PM (#32758067)
This isn't the first time they weaponized their assets - just the first time against the west.

Countries neighbouring Russia dealt with similar issues multiple times already.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by mciancia on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:08PM (#32757678)
How do you want to move Europe to solar power? Do we have any reasonable capability of storing excess power from summer till winter? Why not nuclear?
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by iso1631 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:12PM (#32757743)
Can still generate a hell of a lot of electricity from Solar in winter, and offshore wind, and of course gas isn't going away soon.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by martin_a on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:15PM (#32757773)
> Why not nuclear?

- Current reactors are EOL

- No new reactors have been built since ages, although political constellations might even have been in favor to do so

- No solution for permanent storage of nuclear waste

Nuclear power is no solution at all.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by zakk on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:26PM (#32757920)
Please, please, please stop with the waste management taking point!

There are super-safe and rather cheap ways of treating and storing nuclear waste!

It’s essentially a scaremongering talking point.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by martin_a on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:29PM (#32757960)
Which ways? Dumping them in some salt mines as we have done for the last 50 years? There is not a single "super-safe" and "cheap" way for Germany.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by zakk on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:39PM (#32758096)
Nuclear wastes are incredibly small, the whole energy you would need in your life would fill a soda can of wastes, if only nuclear was used.

Geological repositories are an excellent solution. Those place are geologically stable, and can contain thousand of years of wastes. It’s not very expensive to collect wastes there, as well!

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by gdy on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @07:05PM (#32758381)
"gazprom basically being used as an economic weapon of Russia right now"

Why would Russia need European money if the EU either steals them (they call it 'freezing') or doesn't exchange it for what Russia needs (advanced tech)?

And if Russia don't need European money, why do you expect Gazprom to keep selling gas to the Europe?

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by thro388 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @05:58PM (#32757568)
Maybe it is just Germans own stupidity. 3 nuclear power plants are going to be shutdown this January!
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by martin_a on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:09PM (#32757702)
That you created a throwaway account to repeat this nonsense speaks for itself.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by iso1631 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:14PM (#32757760)
It's a couple of days late, but it wasn't until Sep 5th that they announced 2 of the 3 planned for closure on Dec 31st would be run for an extra 3 months. Still closing Emsland though, at least according to wikipedia

https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2022-09/zwei-atomkraftwerke-s...

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by martin_a on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:24PM (#32757899)
Just so much is fucked up about that whole situation.

1. Did nobody think about that nuclear plants can't be switched on and off like nothing?

2. They want them in standby because they fear that north-south energy transport could be overloaded. Well, let's have some blackouts in Bavaria then, maybe they'll start cooperating with the rest of the country then.

3. Nuclear plants can't really substitute what might be missing in gas, if I remember correctly.

4. With all the half-assed things that are happening in Germany, let's just do ONE thing consequently and stop using nuclear power. It will be fine if it isn't already.

Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by _dain_ on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:16PM (#32757785)
It's a fact.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by martin_a on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:24PM (#32757904)
What exactly? That three nuclear power plants are being shut down by the end of the year? Yes, that's a fact.
Re:Ask HN: Should I be panicking about jobs in Europe? by Panzer04 on Wednesday September 07, 2022 @06:12PM (#32757729)
Yes, because telling your major customer that you’ll screw them completely at will is so good for business.

Whatever Putin’s reason for the war, at this point any attempt to use it for control has spectacularly backfired.