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Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Sunday September 04, 2022 @12:01PM (#32714409)
Certainly there was resistance to digital photography within Kodak. But they did some work with digital very early on and PhotoCD was another effort to get into the transition from film to digital. In any case, the early 80s was way too early for consumer digital photography to be practical.

But what would Kodak really have brought to digital--especially at the scale to replace their consumables business? After all, Kodak once owned a full chemical company (that they spun off at some point) to provide them with their chemical needs. They didn't have much in the way of semiconductor expertise. Their network of dealers could have (and actually did) provide some ability for consumers to print digital photos early on. It's not like Kodak was making anything other than cameras like this when digital came in.

Fujifilm did better with the transition to digital by leveraging their emulsion and chemical expertise. But they still had a rough time of it and were a much smaller company.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by js2 on Sunday September 04, 2022 @02:28PM (#32716143)
PhotoCD seemed like a pretty half-assed effort and there wasn't really a market for it. There were PhotoCD players but no one really wanted to view their images on a TV. So great, you've digitized your photo, now what? People just weren't sharing their images digitally yet. But anyway, my dad tried to sell them in his shop, and I transferred 100 of my favorite images at the time to PhotoCD in 1993. Here's a few:

https://i.ibb.co/bPPgvBN/Photo-37-of-100.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/G5r08cY/Photo-50-of-100.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/X2nPJgT/Photo-74-of-100.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/n1pTKC8/Photo-92-of-100.jpg

Probably shot on Kodak Gold 100 color negative with a Nikon FE2. Gosh I suddenly miss the smell of film.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Sunday September 04, 2022 @03:12PM (#32716625)
I got a few PhotoCDs made when I first got a CD drive for my computer. PhotoCDs probably came from a place where the TV was a central fixture in many households and it probably seemed like a logical extension to how many people would have slideshows of their holiday slides. I think there was a certain baked-in assumption by Kodak and others that the digitization of photography would still look a lot like how photographs were taken and shared in the film world.
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by js2 on Sunday September 04, 2022 @03:48PM (#32716989)
> How many people would have slideshows of their holiday slides.

I have suffered through more than my fair share of those.

> I think there was a certain baked-in assumption by Kodak and others that the digitization of photography would still look a lot like how photographs were taken and shared in the film world.

I don't have any hard numbers, but at my dad's shop we probably sold and developed 95%+ negatives vs slides. We did so little E6 (much less Kodachrome) that we didn't even bother with it in-house. Most photos were shot on negative and shared as prints, not shot on slide and shared as slide shows. So if PhotoCD was supposed to take the place of a slide projector, it was already a losing proposition.

To this day, I have my favorite digital photos printed, as do my family members. There's something more intimate about passing around a photo album than sitting in front of a display.

I think PhotoCD was one of those things that was too early since there wasn't demand for sharing digitally yet, and then too late once digital cameras came out and made digitizing film unnecessary.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Sunday September 04, 2022 @04:18PM (#32717264)
Slides were definitely for more serious photographers many of whom mail ordered film and sent it off to Kodak or someone else for processing--though I'm sure it was still a distinct minority of film sold. One of my rituals when taking a vacation where I'd be doing a lot of photography was to place an order with B&H (via phone) for 20 or however many rolls of Ektachrome and Kodachrome.

I actually wrote an article for CNET when Kodachrome processing was eventually shut down. https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/countdown-to-kodachr...

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by TedDoesntTalk on Monday September 05, 2022 @12:02AM (#32720376)
To think of the millions of slides that were never viewed… I inherited several thousand myself and don’t know what to do with them.
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by betamaxthetape on Monday September 05, 2022 @04:29AM (#32721844)
You might want to contact SalmonSnail [1]. They've been digitizing a massive amount of lost / forgotten 35mm slides, and uploading them to their Flickr account [2].

[1] https://www.timewormarchive.com/contact

[2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/salmonsnail/albums

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by projektfu on Monday September 05, 2022 @12:09AM (#32720404)
Photo CD made a lot of sense for small-time pre-press desktop publishing. The images were well scanned at high resolution at a time when desktop scanners were finicky SCSI devices that took a long time for a mediocre scan. If you were not developing your film yourself, you could do worse than to just have the lab scan the negatives for you, and indeed this is how I use my film camera for the most part, enlarging only the images I like.

At the time, usable digital cameras looked like the Kodak F3 back plus shoulder-mounted hard drive in this article: https://www.businessinsider.com/digital-photography-revoluti...

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by IIAOPSW on Monday September 05, 2022 @01:24AM (#32720844)
There's something surreal about how I was just casually perusing the internet today and came across a random sampling of the earliest photos to exist in the digital medium, and see that the scenes captured within them are just barely contemporaneous with my own existence.
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by markpeppers on Sunday September 04, 2022 @07:17PM (#32718716)
Those are fantastic photos. Link them if you have the rest posted somewhere, I’d love to see!
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by shuntress on Sunday September 04, 2022 @12:14PM (#32714551)
The point is that Kodak was so huge and had such a big head start it didn't matter that they had no direct experience with semiconductors.

Decision makers at kodak should have been able to leverage their considerable resources to gain market share with the new technology that would eventually replace their main product.

All things considered, they did a pretty good job of scaling down and staying alive. But it's a classic example of "My salary depends on not understanding it"

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Sunday September 04, 2022 @12:20PM (#32714645)
Kodak could have gone into any arbitrary new manufacturing business. Heck, they could have invented the smartphone. But besides smartphones, digital photography is not a particularly good business to be in.
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by paulmd on Monday September 05, 2022 @01:29AM (#32720872)
this is, I think, the money shot to my lengthy ramble elsewhere. Digital photography is not a particularly good business to be in, and Kodak had nothing left once you stripped away the film business and the ancillary photopaper/chemical business.

If you're going to do it, you want to be in the pro market, you want to be selling the body, you want an extensive first-party library and, ideally, minimal competition from external third-parties (Sigma, Tamron, etc) selling into your system.

Kodak had none of that, their only DSLR experience was building "digital conversions" of Nikon bodies (using nikon lenses) and they would have been starting from scratch.

Fuji also got really lucky that Japan fucking loves cameras, especially film cameras. Fuji has NEVER given a shit about the world outside japan, other than selling freighter-loads of color negative film (disposable cameras are still extremely popular in the developing world), they give zero shits about marketing their cameras or instant film or anything else outside the Japanese market. Their camera gear (35mm, MF, and LF) has always been top-notch and it just has zero market penetration in the US because they never bothered to market it. It's also routine to have fuji stuff (Astia, FP-100C45, FP-100C, etc) discontinued with like a week of notice to japan, and zero notice to the rest of the world, they have extremely poor organizational communication because they only give a shit about japan. But they never had to, because Japan has had a love affair with photography for 70 years now.

When you look at cameras like the Fuji X-series... those are cameras designed for the Japanese domestic market, cause they still love rangefinders. So is the Pentax Q series... americans don't get it, shitty p+s sensor, why would I buy it? you're not meant to, it's a cute little camera for japanese housewives, they just let us buy it too... sometimes.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Monday September 05, 2022 @09:03AM (#32723856)
I admit to really liking the X-E3--though the X-E4 wasn't obviously an upgrade. But I might just have stuck with Canon (I have a 5Diii) if I were going mirrorless today.

Fuji (although later getting into the X series), did pretty much what Kodak eventually did--mostly applying emulsion and chemical expertise in addition to legacy pro film business plus commercial printing--but, as you say, much smaller and much more insular.

As I've written about in the past, Kodak gets held up as a classic example of "marketing myopia"--see any Marketing 101 textbook. But, for the reasons you cite, Kodak should just have pivoted harder into digital doesn't really hold up.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Monday September 05, 2022 @09:34AM (#32724125)
The insularity of the Japanese market extends to lots of things.

I used to be an IT industry analyst and, while they were never a particular focus, I did follow what NEC, Fujitsu, and Hitachi did in the server market. My general observation was that they all had aspirations to be global IT suppliers but, for the most part, they didn't want to make any material investments to make that actually happen.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by shuntress on Sunday September 04, 2022 @12:27PM (#32714731)
True this is essentially just saying "they could have diversified" but my main point is that they should have diversified into the up-and-coming field where they could claim some expertise.

Someone uses precise complicated chemical manufacturing processes that require a deep understanding of color science to produce the millions of sensors in phones, cars, cameras, doorbells, etc. And it's not Kodak.

Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by shrubble on Sunday September 04, 2022 @08:42PM (#32719244)
Kodak did design and make their own sensors. See the mention of the CCD line shutdown here: https://www.imperx.com/latest-news/discontinuation-of-ccd-im...
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by riffic on Sunday September 04, 2022 @12:43PM (#32714897)
wasn't there a recent initiative to pivot into pharmaceutical research or chemicals or something?
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by ghaff on Sunday September 04, 2022 @01:05PM (#32715190)
They do (and always have done) a lot with chemicals and emulsions only some of which is imaging-related. They also did copiers for a time--which I believe they got out of although they do still have a commercial printing business. I think they also had a healthcare initiative of some sort at one point but they seem to be out of that as well.
Re:The Kodak Disc Camera by cProdigy on Sunday September 04, 2022 @01:11PM (#32715243)
great