The rest of the G7 at least seem prepared to shield their population as much as possible through planning and government intervention, which is probably why they seem much less concerned.
On top of that, the answer to the pain of the current sanctions isn't to go back to relying on Russian gas. It's to pump covid levels of investment into alternatives that don't require us to prop up quasi-dictatorships in order to keep the lights on.
But how? The entire economy of the city of London is based on being the word's money laundering capital, vacation playground and best buddy for Russian Oligarchs, Saudi Royals, CCP big shots and other wealthy dictators and warlords. It's Thacher's legacy.
Brits never saw a social revolution, and it shows.
Is pretty much the entire economy of the UK.
Yes Thatcher had her part to play, but election after election after referendum, the will of the people is more of the same Great British exceptionalism.
Of course, because you probably don't have to live with any serious consequences of your choices, and you're most likely unaffected by these ones either.
Almost half if not more than half of the population in a democracy usually doesn't get to make a realistic choice, they voted for the losers without enough power to enact anything.
Most people don't get to live with the result of their choices but the result of others'. This means the pain is lessened for those responsible, and heightened for others. Are they allowed to moan without triggering your sensibilities? How would you know which is which?
Then realistically you probably didn't get to "suffer" the real consequences from most of your democratic process related choices. If you voted for leadership that went on to wage an illegal war you don't get to bear any of that responsibility. People love to bang their own drum about democracy, and freedoms, and their power, and the contribution they made. Until you bring up what the leaders they chose did. And then it's no longer their responsibility, then it's just a stamp on a paper, not a share of the responsibility. What are the consequences you suffer for something like that?
An example of this that I have heard many times is that of Blair and Iraq.
However now the situation is more interesting as Brexit was done to themselves, not others (though that does not make any suffering ok).
Part of my point is that unanimity (amongst the people) in democracy is pretty much unheard of. So Brexit was not done by everyone. Realistically it wasn't even done by a majority of the population. All the others are in for the ride despite being against it.
Democracy may be the best system we've got now but it sure sucks sometimes. It's why it's called the dictatorship of the majority, and many countries are democratic and yet have very little protections for the different minorities, particularly the ones who have no chance of becoming a majority anytime soon.
The other part of the point is that most times people don't suffer from some of their decisions despite taking credit for any when it suits them. Similar to sport fans where when their team wins "we won", and when it loses "they lost".
Public support of the Iraq war went hand in hand with the UN both finding WMDs and approving action[0].
The lies about Brexit are pretty infamous: from £350m/week for the NHS to stoking immigration fears and the fabrication of EU powers.
While it's disappointing that people are convinced by these types of lies, I'm not sure they're fully to blame; or that it does much good to do so. The bigger question is how do you combat these lies. The ones that seem to tickle the part of the brain where factual arguments don't seem to have much sway.
It doesn't help that elections are also just popularity contests and charades of endless lies and empty promises. Your average voter is far too I'll equipped to make informed judgements on complex issues making them easy to influence through fear mongering by groups with vested interests in seeing the results they want.
Everything is fucked.
Having lived in Zurich for many years, those are fightin' words! /j
The irony - she was mail order bride that just got her Swiss citizenship.
> we spend probably half an hour in Zurich trying to find someone that knows the place and speak German or French at acceptable level to give us directions. It was during the late evening and out of 15 people we stopped like one was swiss.
Stopped...successfully? And does Swiss German count as "an acceptable level of German" :)? I don't find it hard to believe that 14 people would pass you by (as people would in a major city), but I find it hard to believe that out of 14 people, none would speak the major national languages.
It was mostly amusing. Not bad in any way.
The general feeling towards Russia in the UK is very hostile, and there are certainly a huge number of people happy to put the squeeze on Putin. There is little to no enthusiasm for appeasement here, and the pressure is on the government to ease the pressure on the vulnerable without bending over to Russian foreign policy.
[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yuli...
It’s complicated though, as the money is loved, despite the toxic effect on property prices and political parties.
While BJ has made a show of his support for Ukraine, his relationship with Russia has been interesting.
I am prepared to believe that until next week they are fully aware that the people who will elect them genuinely don't care about the poor. After that I hope the idea of getting re-elected by the public will induce a sudden change of plan, if not heart.
I'm happy to pay the price of solidarity with Ukraine.
I work with both Russian and Ukrainian people and none of them want this war.
People are dieing and being forced out of their homes. I know this is happing everywhere but I would like to support these people: 1 because I know people in that country and 2 because like Britain in the second world war they are fighting for some form of a fair democracy.
If that means I have to buy cheaper food and not have heating.. It's a small price to pay compared to what my friends are going through.
I'm irish, living in the UK, and the cost of living crisis is significantly worse here. The standard rate that Electric ireland are about to increase to for both gas and electricity is lower than I paid last winter, and we're about to see our bills almost double from that (and do the same again in 6 months). My bill in october will be almost 4x the cost of what it was last september.
You could also argue that the current prices are just a teaser of what's coming anyway so more incentive to innovate now instead of later. Very harsh and not completely true, but I think there's a little bit of truth to it
China is reselling Russian lng while India is reselling Russian oil as blend.
True intelligence is backing down now but stopping all Russian imports gradually over next 10 years
Even without the sanctions Russia would've still most likely disrupted gas & oil supply as long as the west supplied Ukraine's army.
https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight...
In 2022, China increased LNG from Russia by over 60% and dropped from US by 76%. https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/china-i...
I don't know about the UK, but here nobody is going to have problems putting food on the table or freezing to death this winter. [Edit: I should say, no more problems than we already have.]
My small discomfort at higher heating prices pales in comparison to the death and destruction that Russia is inflicting on Ukraine. If my small discomfort can stop that at all sooner then I am happy to face some discomfort.
I don't understand how people fail to see that our standing up for Ukraine and putting an end to this Russian war as soon as possible is also purely in our self-interests. Russia rampaging through all of Ukraine, and then Georgia, and then Kazakhstan, and then Uzbekistan, and then Finland, and then ..., and then maybe on to NATO (Poland? Balitics?) -- this is not in our interests.
"Oh, but Russia won't do that!" Yeah, that's what all the experts said about Ukraine also. No, sorry, Russia must be stopped now because Russia can no longer be trusted at all.
Also, looks like your neighbors don’t share your opinion.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-prague-european-un...
The Inflation issues we have are partly because of russia, partly because we have a stupidly designed pricing structure. From my understanding we only import about 20% of our gas.
However global gas price sets the entire uk's electricity price. Gas sometimes accounts for 50% -60% of the UK's electricity generation, but that shouldn't result in a 1000% rise in costs.
Every crisis is someone's opportunity to make money off other peoples' loss. As long as their assets are safe and keep going up, nobody cares about CoL going up. Well, at least until riots happen and political extremism grows to new heights.
Come on France, 'do yer thang' (riots), we'll follow suit.
Somewhat unlikely for now. The government is shielding the population from the worst, as they should, by capping electricity prices and with grants/loans to those worst impacted. The average Brit is being hit much worse than the average French.
Making the choice to take no action further compounds the issue as you deepen the coming recession and create more people who cannot pay to heat their homes or keep the economy going.
The answer to a crisis like this is price caps, investment in alternatives, taxes on profits, and if necessary targeted restrictions on energy use.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with covering a situation like this with debt in order to keep people and the economy alive.
How do you know this? Did you do the math? And you know it's not just heating, right, it's electricity too. They'll eat only raw food to not waste energy on ovens and cooktops?
> And keep in mind, if demand goes down, prices go down.
Not with external pressure (war) and near total lack of supply no it doesn't.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-20/price-cap...
this one is based on what? on some sources or own projections?
Yes we need to deal with this crisis by constructing enough nuclear power plants that we never need power again, and that means overriding all rules about planning permissions.
This means that energy prices will be higher than before this winter, and then lower and green forever after. Technically Europe still needs to import Uranium, but we can get that from anywhere and a single ship or aircraft can transport enough for it never to be an issue.
Backing down to a bully will only encourage and empower it further. The current situation in Europe is status quo in poor countries, so the world isn't ending...
Why are the G7 not increasing the aid to Ukraine, to more quickly end the war and force Russia to settle?
So G7 wants a soft "landing".
We now see how western powers are forcing Ukraine to do devastating counter offensives that will lead to quicker defeat. And even then I think Russia will take its time.
We’re approaching a 10 year long business cycle where cheap energy is everything, and Russian’s know that. There is no way out without huge money printing to replace Russian energy, all the while we finished biggest money printing cycle in our lifetimes.
Russia waited since 2014 and chose a best time. Europe will fold sooner or later.
Looking at last 2 decades you think Putin is incompetent? You can say many things about him but that’s the last fucking thing on the list.
It would be like France loosing half its marsouins and chasseurs alpins, and 80% of the legion in a week. A disaster.
And the worse is that Ukrainian migs are still flying over occupied territory. That's unforgivable. It's the proof that the fox3 capabilities they were boasting about are in fact shit. Now they lost Thales for their optics and avionics, so that might be an explanation on why their engagement range for air to air combat seems limited, but this is a bad look.
He ran away from the capital. He is running out of troops and is getting close to conscription. He is dragging out ‘50s and ‘60s tank relicts to fight after losing his prime weapons. His airforce is hiding and his best ship was sunk. His oligarchs are starting to desert him and are getting bombed or falling out windows.
I wonder what would happen if the real civilized world started aiding freedom fighters against UK in Iraq, Syria and Libya?
Russia will probably start doing that
Anyways, Putin is, hopefully, not mad enough to step into nuclear territory. We'll see how he fares when he's cornered in (when Ukraine's counteroffensives get too serious to hide from the Russian public and he has to mobilise to hope to win, or back down.
This was my problem with the Syria war too.
US: We want war! Europe you will get refugees, good luck.
Europe could have also have pursued a strong military, independent of US protection, energy independence from Russia and a strong domestic tech sector allowing it to stick it up and sanction US and Russian warmongering.
But as it stands, it has to 'shut up and take it'.
The second largest steel mill in the world closed today in Germany.
"Oh look, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions." - Germany, 2022 (hopefully)
Negociate what?
Russia has stated multiple times that the only negotiation offer they accept is the complete surrender of Ukraine:
> Russia vowed on Tuesday its assault on Ukraine would continue until Kyiv surrenders
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220628-russia-demand...
The G7 includes the EU as a non enumerated member. The EU, which does not include Ukraine but does include the Baltics and some Nordic states which fear for their own safety. Not to mention how intertwined the G7’s interests are with NATO.
There is a really derpy “if you ignore all the killing that’s happening in this war, it would totally make financial sense to end the sanctions” vibe to some of these comments. The people who are at risk have a say as well.
Blaming this all of this on the UK’s stance wrt Russia is mostly a move by politicians who don’t want to admit how badly they’ve messed regular governing up.
Aside from the obvious Brexit hangover, there is now a messy and confused series of economic policies in place and no clear leadership with regard to policies that could help tackle this issue. The quite literal absence of a functioning executive makes it difficult to take action, and even after a new PM is in place on Monday it’s not clear what’s going to happen.
At least for my part, I’m entirely happy with a massive tax increase on myself and people like me if it helps to ensure that tanks don’t roll into Romania, and my neighbours don’t starve or freeze to death over winter. The “average citizen” in any case is probably more compassionate than you give them credit for.
Their populations, not their leaders.
So no, this is not something imposed by the US, it is a policy initiated by europe, for europe's benefit, and with the support of the US.
Alanis Morissette missed a lyric.
I don’t think anyone believes this.
Your comment is whataboutism at a grand level. It is possible to oppose slaughtering people wherever they live.
If that where true we would all be Nazi.
Remember when Trump imposed duties on EU?
Yeah the rich of US doesn't care.. Sorry
It feels strange to me living in the UK that the sanctions have been spearheaded by the US when they are mostly shielded from Russia. Whereas for European countries, it is obvious that they are dependent on Russian gas and yet they are not willing to negotiate.
The average citizen cares about their energy bill and putting food on the table more than some idealistic notion of standing up to bullies.