They're not required by law to be huge - they're required by law to be safe, which being larger ends up being a side effect.

Sure a 2022 Toyota Corolla is gigantic compared to a 1985 Corolla, but it's nothing compared to a 2022 F150. The best selling 'car' in North America. I know which one I'd prefer to be hit by.

That means yes, they are required by law to be larger.

It was also because a fuel economy rule change.

Have you even seen a Smart car or a Toyota Aigo which has all the required safety parts? So tell us exactly which safety parts are so huge again ?

They are respectively larger than cars that had similar interior space 40 years ago.

Saw a review of an old peugeot 505 wagon. It was way smaller than the current Toyota Camry but you could fit 8 persons and still have larger storage capacity.

At the same time Toyota Aygo is no longer produced. There is now a Toyota Aygo X - a crossover/mini-suv. From what I have read companies stopped producing most of those smallest cars, because to make good margins within what is required by law in terms of safety and CO2 emissions it does not make much sense to produce small cheap cars anymore.

where did you hear that from?

The A-Segment is well alive and thriving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-segment

What I see instead is very small electric vehicles entering the market from new manufacturers --- the market entry hurdle was not the vehicle safety, it was mastering the EURO-6,7,8 and California environmental norms with such a small engine.

I'd love to get one of those, or their van equivalents, rather, alas they're rarely exported outside Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

Toyota Aygo is no longer produced. Replaced by Aygo X - a somewhat bigger car.

Renault Twingo is produced, but is not offered in some countries (I know about UK and Poland).

Peugeot 108 is no longer produced and AFAIU a successor was cancelled. Same thing for sibling Citroen C1. Aygo was also a sibling model.

Suzuki Ignis is a crossover now.

Skoda Citigo is no longer produced. Its sibling model VW Up is still produced, but other sibling Seat Mii is not.

Smart is a bit in a class of its own. It is not cheap though. Toyota had iQ in this class - it is no longer produced.

That leaves us with Hyundai i10 and its sibling Kia Picanto, Fiat Panda which is just a bit bigger then usual in the class, Fiat 500, aforementioned VW Up and Mitsubishi Mirage (also called Space Star in some countries). For me this is a sign of the class being less represented. I think it can go in other direction when electric cars will finally be cheaper, but it will not happen for a couple of years.

> Renault Twingo is produced, but is not offered in some countries

This argument is applied for every vehicle except extremely major one, like Corolla?

> Suzuki Ignis is a crossover now.

It's actually just a bit high A-seg hatchback. Its weight is like 900kg. I've driven it and like it because I don't need SUV w/big tires (unnecessary expensive!) but just need a bit high.

I think every manufacturers just want upselling in current market situation, and A-segs needed to be cheap. VW and Skoda that you pick looks good example. Not due to safety.

Covid 19 and the western economic crisis certainly had an impact on the a-segment, and vendors have also phased out ICE models indeed. however the "couple of years" is a small number and all vendors are working their ways to provide BEVs into that segment.

also the context of my statement is this thread, and a comment claiming vehicle safety being the problem of the A segment, to which your comment seemed to suggest "yah it's also in decline, see: ..."

to which I dare to claim: nope, it will happily come back as the economy recovers and the top mass producers (TMC, VW, Stellantis, RNM alliance) master BEVs.

> That means yes, they are required by law to be larger.

Larger, but not huge as I said. The gigantism of the best selling cars of 2022 isn't because of the law it's because of consumer preference to the detriment of everyone else.

I live in the UK, and the last car I bought was a SEAT Ibiza with a 3 cylinder 1 litre engine. I get 4.5l/100km or 52 mpg on long trips. 98% of the time my engine does under 2500 rpm.

I have absolutely no need of anything bigger and my car has all the comforts I require. I was also able to buy it for cash.

I've never quite understood the desire to own a large car with all its concomitant costs.

How large is your family?

Just one kid.

To be clear we do own another car which is an old Skoda Octavia Greenline also bought for cash. Its efficiency is pretty incredible even if it is a 'dirty diesel'.

It occurred to me a few weeks ago that it was kind of nonsensical that there are tons of safety requirements that have added a lot of cost and complexity to a basic car (arguably this is a very good idea) yet you can still ride a motorcycle around legally. I don't know about you but I'd rather drive to work in a 1980 honda civic than a motorcycle, if only to stay out of the rain. But it isn't legal to sell a 1980s style civic anymore.

Uhm not seeing your point? Cars are made to keep who’s inside alive, and you can’t do that with paper thin walls that made the original mini.

No law makes an SUV a requirement though. That’s just people getting greedy while the roads are getting larger allowing them to see no difference driving large vehicles.

I live in an area that is sparsely populated and has hard winters, oftentimes plowing isn't going to happen soon if it happens on the day of a snow storm. I also have several children that I need to transport to various places.

I have yet to find a mini-van that is able to handle appropriately in the snow and conditions I am likely to face, and a smaller vehicle can't carry my family.

Just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean someone who does something you disagree with is morally deficient.

TIL that only two minivans (the Sienna and the Pacifica) offer AWD. That surprised me!

And incidentally (getting back to the original point of the article), both models feature a pretty flat front-end for a minivan. I wouldn't be surprised if they are considered among the least pedestrian-safe vehicles of the class.

European cars have to pass Euro-NCAP crash standards which include pedestrian safety tests. It's not the mass or overall size that's dangerous to pedestrians, it's the nose/hood profile and height.

Smart is smaller than most cars made in 80s, and modern compact/city cars are still reasonably light. It's just that somehow SUVs became fashionable. I can't understand why.

> Smart is smaller than most cars made in 80s

Well, if you compare a car for a couple to a car for a family...

My 2021 miata isn't really much larger than a 1989 miata.

It weighs 300lbs more, or 15%.

In terms of mass it weighs more (depending on model, it can be as little as 200lbs more), but it's not actually much larger in terms of size. I think it is actually smaller in some dimensions.

I have a car like that. 2017 toyota yaris. 13 feet long and 2300 lbs like a toyota from 1995.

Modern sedans are way smaller than the sedans of the 80's: Have you seen a Ford Crown Vic from that time frame - or driven one? (my dad had an 85, and was the first car that I was allowed to use).

Modern cars aren't required to be huge, in other words.

Car companies profit on SUV's more than smaller cars, though, so that's what they push. It helps that they are popular - which is realistically what has happened to the Ford Ranger. Larger bodies are more popular.

> Imagine if we had cars that were built like cars from the 80s ...

I'd happily but such a car for the city, if it was cheap enough to be able to afford a more serious car for long journeys.

How often do you go on long journeys? Rental is an option...

No thanks, not for me. I like having my car sitting in my driveway for when I need it.

You probably wouldn't know the difference between a 1980s car and a modern car if the modern amount of NVH reduction was thrown at the 1980s car.

As long as the interior is large enough...