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Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by atwood22 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @08:38PM (#32381331)
I’m of a different opinion. There actually aren’t alternatives to fossil fuel and that’s why there isn’t broad support for the tax. A tax on fossil fuel would make everything more expensive with little recourse for alternatives.

I bought an electric power washer and weed wacker recently. The performance is just laughable compared to the petrol powered version.

Electric cars have given people hope that a fossil fuel free future is possible. However, electric cars seem to occupy a niche where carrying around 30x the amount of “fuel” is possible. Most fossil fuel uses don’t share this luxury.

Climate change will likely force a fossil fuel free future. But it probably won’t look much like the society we have today. There certainly won’t be high PSI pressure washers.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by eurleif on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:35PM (#32381643)
For pressure washers, the biggest issue is that the US generally uses 120 volts*15 amps. There are 240 volt models that have competitive specs with gas-powered models, but since consumers generally don't have 240 volt outlets other than for specific appliances, they're geared for the commercial/industrial market, and are accordingly expensive. I've toyed with the idea of importing a 240 volt pressure washer from India (specifically: https://www.starq.in/collections/high-pressure-washer-1/prod...) since they use 240 volts there, and their consumer-grade pressure washers are thus more powerful.

Weed wackers need to be cordless, though, so that's a different issue.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by LorenPechtel on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:03PM (#32382070)
Yeah, if we are going to avoid ICE engines around the house we need to modify the electric code. As it stands you can't get ICE-level power from anything electric because circuits of that power are not permitted for general use.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by eurleif on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:09PM (#32382093)
Is there actually something in the electrical code that prohibits installing a 240 volt outlet wherever you want? I know people often install them outdoors for EV chargers.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by idubrov on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:13AM (#32382336)
(everything below assumes US and NEC / local electrical codes)

I don't think code prohibits it, but in my (not very educated) opinion, you might get into some gray territory if you try install them everywhere.

There are some safety related provisions which are mandatory for regular 120V (GFCI and/or AFCI), but I don't think they are required for 240V circuits. Building inspectors might have questions if you install these outlets everywhere. Although, again, I don't remember any limitation of where you can have them.

Another issue is the type of the receptacle. Apparently, Leviton makes receptacle that might be allowed in US and is combination of regular 120V plus European style 240V. However, it is only limited to 2.5A, which is very little (I think, this receptacle is primarily designed for hotels / shared spaces where you only want to charge your devices). Also, I don't think it has ground for 240V.

Probably, the best would be to use US 15A/20A receptacles (NEMA 6-15 / NEMA 6-20), which look very similar to the regular 120V ones (the difference is blades are horizontal).

However, I've never seen any actual plug using them (even though I did install these 240V in my garage, expecting some 240V equipment). But you can rewire plugs on your "imported" equipment / appliances.

There are also some interesting differences of the supply: in US it is typically split phase 120V+120V=240V, but sometimes (according to the internet) it could be 3 phase 120V with 208V between phases; in some parts of the world, it would be 3 phase 230V with 400V between the phases. This probably would cause some differences in how grounding works, might affect safety.

But yeah, generally, 240V should not be a problem. Power-hungry equipment (water heater, range, electrical dryer, EV chargers) -- they all typically use 240V already.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by rsync on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:44AM (#32384054)
No, there is a proper us code-compliant solution for outdoor 240 receptacles - it’s that 4 prong 50amp one … you see them coming out of the ground at ski resorts, for instance, and they are also used on those outdoor PDUs you see at concerts and parades …

Edit: I think it’s a 14-50r.

Edit2: You almost certainly don't need these. A plain old 20amp 110 receptacle, on a dedicated circuit, GFCI, is a perfectly reasonable and code-compliant receptacle to put all over the outside of your house and will power anything you might need.

I can believe that a 15amp (pressure washer, weeder, etc.) might seem underpowered but I am skeptical that a 20amp one would be ...

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by idubrov on Monday August 08, 2022 @09:34AM (#32385180)
Right, there are code compliant solutions. I was just musing over an idea of having 240V "everywhere" (including inside the house in every room, having 240V for special needs is, of course, a solved problem).

14-50R is not what I would use in that case, they are bulky, unsightly and don't offer tamper resistance.

6-20R / 6-15R have variants that are tamper resistant, and they look like regular outlets.

"20A should be enough for everything".

We used to have 2.5-3kW kettles before we moved to US, which would require 20-25A (although, I don't think the math is that simple -- circuit breakers don't trip on "exactly 20A").

Also, the issue with 20A receptacles is that, again, I have never seen 20A plugs (NEMA 5-20P) on appliances (it has neutral connector "flat" rather than vertical). Which is understandable, why make them if nobody has 20A receptacles anyway. There is a requirement to have two 20A branches in a kitchen, but commonly they are wired to 15A receptacles.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by rsync on Monday August 08, 2022 @10:46AM (#32386035)
Your anecdote about coffee makers is a good one - it bears repeating that one of the most intensive household loads are old-school coffee percolators, etc., and many school and church kitchens have circuits just for them.

As for 20amp, it may interest you to learn that I have a commercial microwave with two magnetrons that is actually 20amp (and has the horizontal pin, etc.).

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by idubrov on Monday August 08, 2022 @10:59AM (#32386237)
Yeah, it shows that I have zero knowledge about commercial appliances. I guess, I wouldn't be surprised if they routinely use 20A plugs / receptacles. Would make sense. Maybe, hospital equipment, too?
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Symbiote on Monday August 08, 2022 @11:42AM (#32386892)
You would routinely see IEC sockets in use in Europe in commercial kitchens, factories, anything outdoors like a music festival etc. Partly it's for higher power appliances (including 3 phase power), but also the waterproofing.

They're also the socket found in datacentres (in Europe) to connect a UPS or PDU.

Home users see them at campsites, marinas, and for charging electric cars without a special car charger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by LorenPechtel on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:25PM (#32387582)
I actually have a set of 4 20A receptacles within about 3' of me. I had to have an electrician wire a dedicated line, the main cost was the labor, might as well use 4-wire cable wired to 240V, I got 4 120V outlets out of it and he used the 20A type that takes either the usual household plug or the 20A version.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by idubrov on Monday August 08, 2022 @04:16PM (#32390483)
Wiring 240V is (typically) not an issue, as it is standard (in the US) to get 240V from the transformer to the house. The devil is in the details: what current would you wire it for, what receptacle are you going to use and what are you going to plug there.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by LorenPechtel on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:23PM (#32387556)
ICE-powered pressure washers go up to 4,000 psi. I have never seen an electric pressure washer above about 3,000 psi and they're usually no more than the ballpark of 2,000 psi.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by LorenPechtel on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:21PM (#32387532)
Your high power examples are all either dedicated wires (no outlet) or single-use outlets (like the dryer.) I'm saying there is no general use high power outlet permitted.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by bryanlarsen on Monday August 08, 2022 @07:31AM (#32384308)
People install 240V outlets for EV chargers, RV's and hot tubs quite regularly. They usually don't break code to do so.

And those are usually 240V/50A outlets, a lot more powerful than the 240V/12A outlets of Europe.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Dylan16807 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:31PM (#32382182)
How much power do weed wackers need?

I have one with an 80 watt hour battery. The level of power seems just fine to me, for the moderate amount of time it lasts.

And that's barely over one pound of battery. Add five more pounds and that's a ton of power while probably still lighter than a gas engine.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by assttoasstmgr on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:13AM (#32382546)
Please do post back here and let us know how long it took the 50 Hz motor to burn up from you running it at 60 Hz.

They certainly do make 240V 60Hz 20A rated pressure washers for the US market that typically come with inline GFCIs as well.

So you can feel good about saving the planet whilst cutting your toes off with the water jet.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by eurleif on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:42AM (#32382660)
It's not on their Web site, but the label on the device itself (visible here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCHvgkPXGMk&t=175s) says it's rated for either 50 or 60 Hz.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by toast0 on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:11AM (#32382325)
> Weed wackers need to be cordless, though

They don't really. I've had corded electric weed wackers. You've gotta be more careful, of course, and within an extension cord of an outlet, but that's fine for acheivable lot sizes in most of suburbia.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by hanche on Monday August 08, 2022 @02:57AM (#32383002)
> more careful

Indeed. I did cut through one extension cord with my hedge trimmer already,

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by bbarn on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:58PM (#32382046)
120 in the US is typically on a 15 amp circuit. 240 in Europe at least (and I'd assume most of the world) is generally on a 5 amp circuit. This is speaking in typical household voltages and amperages, so obviously someone will have outliers, but this has been my experience

120 * 15 = 1800 watts. 240 * 5 = 1200 watts. US circuits generally carry more power than their overseas equivalents. If you plugged that Indian 240v pressure washer into your 20 amp circuit, it wouldn't likely draw more current unless it was designed badly, and wouldn't perform any better.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by franga2000 on Monday August 08, 2022 @05:12AM (#32383610)
I've never seen a 5A circuit in South-Eastern Europe, or even a 5A fuse for that matter (many buildings still have fuse blocks, not breakers, so that's what I'm familiar with). 6A fuses can be found in some stores, but 16A seems to be the most commonly used in apartments. Most places also have 20/25A lines for the washing machine and oven.

Where in Europe have you seen 5A?

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by butterknife on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:24AM (#32382590)
I don't know where you got 5A from? Most Europe radial circuits are sized for 16A. In the UK it is common that house sockets are on ring circuits sized for 32A.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by stephen_g on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:02AM (#32382299)
I don’t know of anywhere where 5A is common, everywhere I know of is always 10A minimum (2300 W at 230 V nominal). Here in Australia 10 amp sockets are everywhere but it’s common to have at least one 15A (3450 W) outlet somewhere in the home too
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by eurleif on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:01PM (#32382060)
The Indian pressure washer I linked is 2800 watts.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Gibbon1 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:46PM (#32382231)
A NEMA 6-15 outlet can deliver that.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by eurleif on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:59PM (#32382289)
Right -- it's a chicken and egg thing where US manufacturers don't make consumer-grade 240v pressure washers because consumers don't have those outlets installed in the right places, and people don't have the outlets because there would be nothing to use them for.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Gibbon1 on Monday August 08, 2022 @02:59AM (#32383014)
Back a while I tried estimating what it would take to make 'electric weed burner'. The answer was you could do it but it needed a 30 amp 240V outlet.

One complaint I have in the opposite direction is hybrid water heaters. In heat pump mode they draw 500 Watts. But they require 240V @ 30 amps for the resistive heaters. Would be nice if they would run in heat pump mode only if connected to 120V single phase.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Symbiote on Monday August 08, 2022 @07:43AM (#32384378)
There are 2500W electric weed burners for sale in Europe, but they have mixed reviews.

https://bataviatools.co.uk/product/garden-tools/garden-machi...

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by bryanlarsen on Monday August 08, 2022 @07:29AM (#32384297)
It's chicken and egg, but one relatively easy to break on both sides.

- importing tools from Europe can kickstart the market and is a lot less risky than designing new tools

- 240V garage & exterior outlets are becoming common for hot tubs, RV's and electric car chargers.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by idubrov on Monday August 08, 2022 @09:47AM (#32385312)
The problem with 240V is that there are few NEMA standards used is USA (although , they look bulky and are kind of unsafe around the kids.

Which is not a problem for dedicated circuits (you could wire receptacle just for this specific dryer / hot tub / RV / whatever, plug it and never remove), but would be a bigger problem if 240V is shared between appliances.

I think, NEMA 6-15 / NEMA 6-20 would be the best (they look very similar to standard 120V outlets; they have tamper resistance; 15A or even 20A should be plenty enough), but nobody wires them.

Also, there are other minor differences like:

1. 50Hz in Europe vs 60Hz in USA. 2. The voltage between ground and "power" lines would be different. In Europe it would be 240v between line and ground and 0V between neutral in ground, in USA it would be 120V between ground and both power connectors, due to how 240V is typically delivered to single-family homes in USA (split phase). Should not make much difference (you are not supposed to have any current to ground anyway, and any short-circuit should trigger the circuit breaker), but maybe it will affect safety somehow? 3. Seems like in some cases in USA you can get 208V instead of 240V (and Europe is nominally 230V).

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Dma54rhs on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:44AM (#32382448)
No way being on 5 amp circuit is normal. Matter of a fact I'd be interested to hear where can you find it in Europe.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Symbiote on Monday August 08, 2022 @07:36AM (#32384338)
In Britain (possibly also Ireland, Malta, Cyprus) lighting and sockets are usually on separate circuits. The lighting circuit has a 5 amp fuse or breaker, enough for 12-20 old incandescent bulbs. A typical house probably has one circuit for each floor.

But that's certainly not where you'd connect a leafblower.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by blibble on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:27PM (#32382163)
20A is typical in 240V UK
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Symbiote on Monday August 08, 2022 @03:51AM (#32383244)
No, 13A is the limit for a UK plug. You can buy a 3kW portable heater.

Something wired in might be 32A or more, like a car charger or electric shower (7.5kW).

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by blibble on Monday August 08, 2022 @10:16AM (#32385660)
we're talking about the circuit, the bit between the distribution board and the plug

I went and checked and mine are actually 32A

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by ClumsyPilot on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:28PM (#32381596)
> A tax on fossil fuel would make everything more expensive with little recourse for alternatives.

that money doesn't dissapear, it could be used to reduce other taxes, say income tax or VAT.

it's purpose is to rebalance relative cost of things

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by collegeburner on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:43PM (#32381976)
no its purpose is to fix an externality. it should be exactly equal to the cost of carbon offset for the amount emitted. or better yet license anybody to do carbon capture and require presenting a certificate of equal carbon removed. start at like 1/8 emissions removal and go up over time.

if you care about stopping carbon emissions i think this is the most realistic and efficient way. otherwise we get caught up in discussions of how this changes redistribution and "economic/environmental justice" or whatever and it will never happen. but unfortunately there are many people who care more about adding more free stuff or using the funds for more dumb congress policies then actually passing a carbon policy.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Clubber on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:07AM (#32382315)
>>A proper carbon tax would only increase flight costs by about 8%

>no its purpose is to fix an externality. it should be exactly equal to the cost of carbon offset for the amount emitted.

So it would only cost 8% of the cost of a flight to completely remove all the carbon emitted from that flight? That seems pretty reasonable. How is this done?

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Panzer04 on Monday August 08, 2022 @02:15AM (#32382818)
By causing a reallocation of resources everywhere else - Fossil fuels would only be used where there is no alternative. A carbon tax won't completely kill them off, but it will cause anyone who can to switch away.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Clubber on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:46PM (#32387869)
So it's incentive for someone to not take a flight? I would assume travel has a certain degree if inelasticity in demand which would cause the tax to be much less effective in actually reducing emissions. The only way for this to actually reduce emissions is if someone decided to not travel at all and just stay home. If they decided to go by car, I assume that would be worse (180 passengers don't take a flight but drive instead). I mean if you have to go to your grandmother's funeral 5 states away, you gotta go. If you have to go on a business trip, you have to go. What's the estimated percentage of carbon emissions would an 8% tax reduce? I guess this is aimed at leisure travel primarily.

This seems like one of those things that sound right on a macro level, but doesn't take into account the inelastic demand of travel. For it to actually reduce emissions (the goal), the tax would probably need to be much, much higher to the point where you just don't go to grandma's funeral.

Honestly, for me, the TSA and the actual flight experience in the US as kept me from flying at all since about 2006. I can't stand any part of it. I don't care much for driving either and only put around 2000 miles a year on my vehicle. Most of this is because I can work at home. I guess I've got a pretty low footprint.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Dylan16807 on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:03PM (#32391683)
> For it to actually reduce emissions (the goal), the tax would probably need to be much, much higher to the point where you just don't go to grandma's funeral.

Nah, you just need enough pressure to move people onto electric cars.

A plane might be one of the last holdouts on fossil fuels, but even then renewable fuel shouldn't be that expensive in bulk.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by yellowapple on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:06AM (#32383864)
> it should be exactly equal to the cost of carbon offset for the amount emitted

If it's to fix an externality, then it specifically should be exactly equal to the cost of that externality - that is, sufficient to compensate for all damages (and repairs for said damages) resulting from that externality. This should be right around the same as a carbon offset, but it's worth remembering why a carbon tax is necessary: not for the mere sake of punishing some dirty activity, but for the specific sake of compensating the victims of reckless negligence.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by collegeburner on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:02PM (#32387222)
Exactly, that's what I'm saying, the cost should be exactly equal to what it costs to fix it. The most efficient way to do that is allow anybody to get certified to fix that externality and require proof that the person who caused it also paid to get it fixed. This makes it easier than trying to determine what the current price of remediating is. Markets work really well at some things and this is one.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by dTal on Monday August 08, 2022 @11:44AM (#32386934)
Which doesn't really work as a concept when there are things so terrible that no amount of money can compensate. What price would you put on human extinction?
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by yellowapple on Monday August 08, 2022 @05:41PM (#32391425)
> Which doesn't really work as a concept when there are things so terrible that no amount of money can compensate.

Well yeah, but surely some compensation is better than the current status quo of nothing at all.

> What price would you put on human extinction?

Well, if we want to get hyper-capitalist about it: whatever the resulting opportunity cost is from those humans no longer being able to produce value. Of course, seeing as how humans can produce other humans who then produce value and yet more humans and so on in perpetuity, that opportunity cost rather quickly approaches infinity.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Duwensatzaj on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:52AM (#32382711)
This exact issue helped kill Washington state’s twice proposed carbon tax initiative.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by ZeroGravitas on Monday August 08, 2022 @03:17AM (#32383083)
They just passed an entirely equivalent law though, so clearly it wasnt fatal.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by imtringued on Monday August 08, 2022 @06:42AM (#32384042)
You could pay a carbon dividend and grant every human on earth equal pollution rights...
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by devoutsalsa on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:20PM (#32381551)
Personally I’d like to see mass adoption of synthetic fuel made from the air for use cases where liquid fuel is the only practical solution. Like HIF Global’s plan to make synthetic fuel for about 8 USD per gallon (4.5 liters).

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/04/porsche-invests-75-mill...

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by ZeroGravitas on Monday August 08, 2022 @03:20AM (#32383090)
Part of the EU plan is to force a 1% blend of this in all jet fuel sold in the EU and slowly ratchet up the percentage over time.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by collegeburner on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:46PM (#32381990)
yep gas is like 100 times more energy dense as lithium ion iirc so there's cases where it's just a better "battery". there's also a big carbon cost to replacing all the huge number of gas engines we have. so like what HIF Global wants to do using electricity to make gas can be a good solution.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by beojan on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:06PM (#32382083)
$8 per US gallon (3.8 L), not imperial gallon.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by devoutsalsa on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:53PM (#32382264)
Thanks for the correction. I missed that.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by pedalpete on Sunday August 07, 2022 @10:32PM (#32381923)
There is lots of research in this area, along with renewable jet fuels, hydrogen, and electric powered jets.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by TaylorAlexander on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:47AM (#32382686)
My mom just bought a battery operated lawn mower, weed whacker, and leaf blower kit. She loves how portable, quiet, and easy to use they are. She’s 70 years old so portable and easy to use are more important to her than power.

I just mention this because what might not seem like an option for you can work fine for other people. She loves not having to pull start a gas mower or deal with the noise and smell of it.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by chad_c on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:27PM (#32382166)
There are plenty of great cordless trimmers and electric power washers. Milwaukee, Greenworks, Ego, Krantzle (for car washing)…I think you should expand your search and look at GPM, not max PSI.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by VoodooJuJu on Monday August 08, 2022 @08:29AM (#32384680)
>Climate change will likely force a fossil fuel free future. But it probably won’t look much like the society we have today. There certainly won’t be high PSI pressure washers.

It's a hard thing to accept, but I believe it to be true.

What's disturbing is that people can't even begin to imagine this ever being true. They vehemently refuse to accept the possibility that many of our modern comforts will cease to be - just look at the responses here talking about all the tech that will ostensibly save us and make everything okay and allow us to continue living exactly the way we do now, indefinitely. That's not good, because we really ought to be talking about a low-tech future as a serious possibility.

If we take it seriously, there are things we can start doing now to smooth the transition period. That transition period could be complete and utter hell, or it could be smooth and painless.

Humans have been around long before pressure washers and cars and planes, and they'll continue to be around long after these things are gone. If we wean our municipalities, our families, and ourselves from fragile dependencies, then the transition period might not cause serious harm.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by evandijk70 on Monday August 08, 2022 @04:38AM (#32383454)
I'm from Europe, and have never seen anyone use a gas-powered leaf-blower, pressure washer, or weed wacker in their garden. Do you really need them?
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by AvocadoPanic on Monday August 08, 2022 @07:41AM (#32384362)
Also gas powered chainsaw.

I didn't need them in Europe, I do in the US.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by emailtho on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:35PM (#32381646)
Woods chips and hand weeding is an alternative. Concrete is carbon intense to produce; let’s stop using it for driveways and sidewalks. Alternatives!

Manual labor used to be applied to these things. One could argue the fossil fuel industry got us hooked to petrol solutions in search of a problem.

Look at us too addicted to our inventiveness to get our hands dirty, a little sweaty outside the air conditioned gym, or give up a grass lawn.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by max51 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @11:57PM (#32382277)
look at what hilti is making if you think electricity is a limiting factor for Power tools. they don't make power washers but they makes extremely powerful cordless electric tools. The kind that allows you to drill 1.5" wide holes in reinforced concrete and cut thought rebars.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by WalterBright on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:25AM (#32382383)
Natural gas has half the carbon in it for the same energy as coal. Hence, a carbon tax would favor the use of n.g. over coal. Which is as it should be.

The various chemical versions of hydrocarbons all have different amounts of energy per carbon content.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by Pxtl on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:35AM (#32382413)
For the weed wacker, get yourself a 100ft 12-gauge extension cord and go wired. Unless your property is enormous, batteries are for suckers when it comes to yard work.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by scifibestfi on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:27AM (#32382392)
Germany is proving this out in real time. Energy costs have gone through the roof and they are reactivating mothballed coal plants. The dirtiest fossil fuel.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by eloisius on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:37AM (#32382427)
To me this sounds like an analogy for fake meat. I don’t care what anyone tells me. Fake meat, including impossible burger and whatever new, hyped up product they come up with taste like garbage. None of it will ever be as good as a real steak. I never want to try another vegan chicken wing again. Some inherently meatless foods are delicious though.

Maybe an electric weed whacker will never compare to a petrol one, but maybe the issue is that the typical suburban manicured lawn is an artifact of the petrol era, and we shouldn’t try to fake it with electric lawn mowers and weed whackers.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by DarknessFalls on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:45AM (#32382449)
I have the 80V Greenworks Pro line of mower and trimmer (blower as well). They're much quieter and do an excellent job. The blower is powerful as hell. I don't know what this guy is talking about. I do my lawn about every two weeks as I live in Florida and it rains a lot.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by wishinghand on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:01AM (#32382507)
This is a silly argument- a subjective situation vs an objective one. Can electric pressure washers output a stream of similar force to ICE washers? This can be quantified. While fake burgers don't taste exactly like hamburger, saying they taste like garbage is something without quantification.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by netrap on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:48PM (#32381712)
I'm just thinking that for the high energy density would a Hydrogen (fuel cell?) pressure washer work?
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by ch4s3 on Sunday August 07, 2022 @09:23PM (#32381560)
There may be some truth here, and I have a suspicion a limited amount of fossil fuel burning will continue for the next century. It seems like we may be forced to rely on DAC to some extent an have to negotiate internationally how much CO2 we're pulling out of the atmosphere and how quickly.

> There certainly won’t be high PSI pressure washers

I wonder if a 220v plug in pressure washer would be practical.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by maiorana on Monday August 08, 2022 @08:36AM (#32384722)
would also need a way to generate steam without natural gas. Maybe nuclear, but that's just as unrealistic right now.

Steam is used to heat a lot of things outside of power generation and without steam our economy falls apart and this means without natural gas we are fucked.

Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by alephu5 on Monday August 08, 2022 @01:18AM (#32382568)
Sounds like an incentive to invest in R&D.
Re:Carbon offsetting is just another form of greenwashing by bobbylarrybobby on Monday August 08, 2022 @12:29AM (#32382397)
The alternative is to use less energy