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Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by Zealotux on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:02AM (#32165174)
Can confirm this, I once installed a package on my Linux machine that wasn't approved by a multi-billion dollar company, my computer exploded.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by bena on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:02AM (#32166750)
Browser toolbars. It's just going to be browser toolbars all over again.

Sure, you may not install them. You may be perfectly meticulous with what you install on your devices. But not everyone is.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by izacus on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @12:31PM (#32168207)
A small cost to pay for a proper free market with competition. It's critical for success of our capitalism that free market competition exists.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by vesinisa on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:07AM (#32165232)
Lots of the Apple walled garden stuff is certainly not about security but about artificially limiting competition. And I am sure you can continue to use e.g. Apple Safari browser. But people who want to use the device they already paid for to its full capability without artificial after-market limitations should be able to do so.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by bloppe on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:18AM (#32165360)
Even if you choose to stick to only Apple's in-house services, you'll benefit from this regulation. Apple will be forced to compete on a level playing field with challengers, which will force them to lower their App Store fees to a reasonable level.

The only people who should be concerned are those over-exposed to Apple stock, but they're not getting any sympathy from me.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by AlbertoGP on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:19AM (#32165381)
I understand the negative responses to your comment as I prefer the freedom to run whatever I want on my computers/devices, but I’d like to mention that I do see your point because we do not live in isolation:

If a friend or relative wants a phone, for now I can recommend them an iPhone and be free of the drama that would ensue if (when!) they installed any of those sketchy things you mention, which not only would for instance spy on their messages, but also get anything I send them in addition to my contact data. And then I’ll have to do technical support to mitigate the consequences.

Other situation when this freedom will be a problem would be peer/boss pressure to install some crap that they like to use for messaging for instance.

Unfortunately, others installing garbage in their computers/devices affects me too. That’s a social problem, and there is no simple solution for it.

I’d still choose freedom.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by alaric410 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:17AM (#32165356)
The concept of "ecosystem" is anti-consumer and anti-progress. Ecosystems exist to protect monopolies like Apple from competition.

Also if Apple is so secure, why is there a celebrity iCloud hack almost every other day?

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by simiones on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:09AM (#32165253)
> Use a spyware voice assistant.

You already have Siri for that. All voice assistants are spyware.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by Semaphor on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:17AM (#32165351)
> All voice assistants are spyware.

If anything, only cloud void assistants.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by simiones on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @10:49AM (#32166520)
Yes, I was thinking of Siri, Alexa, Cortana, Google Voice, Bixby - the mainstream ones.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by RedShift1 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:00AM (#32165139)
Then just keep using the Apple store and Apple pay.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ben_w on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:06AM (#32165219)
That's great until someone has an app I need and chooses to only make it available on a different store.

I'm not legally trained, so I hope they've thought of this and also have rules for these 3rd party app stores.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by vesinisa on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:09AM (#32165261)
Well if the app is on a different store you wouldn't be able to currently install it all, right? So you have only expanded your options and it's up to you if you choose to exercise them or not.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ratww on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @10:10AM (#32166035)
Well, the app might be currently available in the AppStore but would now be able to move to an AltStore. Plenty of apps I bought in the past have been pulled from macOS AppStore but are available on websites.

In the past I even had banks and even the public sector offices abusing Windows and macOS security and forcing me to install the equivalent of a rootkit in my computer. Without a sufficiently smart sandbox I bet this problem will come back.

On the other hand, that doesn't seem to have happened on Android, at least not in a wide scale.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by Kelteseth on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:16AM (#32165340)
> That's great until someone has an app I need and chooses to only make it available on a different store.

Fair point. The company I work for would 100% now require you to do that If you want to use our software, to make it easier to comply with Qt LGPLv3.

> I'm not legally trained, so I hope they've thought of this and also have rules for these 3rd party app stores.

Isn't the idea here that you do not need an app store to require external software?

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by iainmerrick on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:10AM (#32165267)
That’s similar to the situation with Android and iOS right now. In principle, there could be an app you need but can’t use because it’s only on Android and you have an iPhone.

If you like the App Store and want to continue using it, you’ll be fine unless it becomes less popular and loses some important apps. That could happen but seems unlikely in the near term.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ben_w on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:43AM (#32165693)
Mm, kinda. The following hypothetical feels fairly likely within 12 months of 3rd party app stores being mainstream:

(1) App deals with sensitive or linenced content — doesn't matter what, DRM, medical info, private chat, take your pick.

(2) App integrates 3rd party library to look for other apps that might be trying to steal your data and/or record the DRMed stream you're playing. This 3rd party library injects itself at the lowest level possible in order to catch anything injecting itself even lower.

(3) Bug in library (or supply chain attack in the app as a whole) means the phone is now less secure than if the app had not been installed.

The difference from the status quo is, the iOS app store won't let apps root the phone. (IDK if the Android store prevents or allows that).

(I know games aren't "must have" apps, but this has already happened with anti-cheat rootkits. And "has this phone been rooted" software already gets used, but doesn't yet need to preemptively root the phone itself, at least not so far as I've seen).

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by iainmerrick on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:19AM (#32167014)
You're envisaging something like a medical or banking app that is intentionally not on the App Store, but instead requires you to use some other installer?

I guess that's possible, but seems a bit unlikely -- it's just a pretty big barrier to entry for your users.

Android technically allows this already, but how many major apps are not on the Play Store? (Apart from Samsung apps, which is slightly different case as their store is preloaded when you buy the phone. But there won't be a Samsung iOS phone any time soon.)

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ben_w on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:47AM (#32167441)
I think it's likely enough I expect to see it not just happening but also going wrong within 12 months of this change taking effect, assuming 3rd party app stores are not also regulated to actively prevent that (which they may well be). There is also this anecdote of basically this problem happening on desktops: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32166035
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by skywal_l on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:03AM (#32165186)
But you still can stick to apple walled garden if you want to. I am not sure what you are complaining about.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by PeterisP on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:04AM (#32165199)
> Buy another phone if you wanna mess about.

Exactly, I should be able to buy another iPhone and mess about on it.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by ilikehurdles on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:10AM (#32165277)
You can do all of this on MacOS and most (nearly all?) people still manage to stay safe.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by pdpi on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:12AM (#32165296)
> Use an unsupported browser full of RCE vulns

While I sympathise with your overall sentiment, I have no reason to believe Firefox or Chrome would have any more RCE vulns than Safari does, and their respective engines not being deeply integrated with the OS potentially means one less vector for a hypothetical RCE to escalate privileges.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by j16sdiz on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @10:23AM (#32166184)
It is not the big names like firefox or chrome. It's those cute colorful browser that bundles some outdated engine.
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by iamnotarobotman on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:25AM (#32165468)
> Install any malware. Install any Trojanized App Store full of warez and viruses. Use an unsupported browser full of RCE vulns. Use sketchy payment system that steals you card. Use a spyware voice assistant.

Correct. Malware and trojans, everywhere will be unleashed on the average user and will make the crypto wallet an obvious target for scammers and criminals to take payment with and steal the users crypto.

Wallets will be drained via modified, cracked apps or hack tools connecting to dodgy smart contracts, and payment providers will be using anonymous cryptocurrencies like Zcash, monero, mobilecoin (used in signal messenger) etc.

I can only see nothing but the same security issues on the desktop, but now made worse on phones enabling side-loading or alternative app stores.

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by nathias on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:00AM (#32165141)
just use the deault one?
Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by bigDinosaur on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:02AM (#32165171)
* User any browser and browser engine and choose to make it default

You already can on e.g. iOS but you get a slow implementation if you use your own engine. Does this account for that?

Re:EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, a... by simiones on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:08AM (#32165242)
No you can't. iOS doesn't allow apps that compile or interpret code at runtime.