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Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by dhsysusbsjsi on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:06AM (#32162840)
Yet every month my Apple AirPods stop connecting with my Apple iPhone, until I hard reboot the iPhone. And a $70 Bluetooth headset that wouldn’t connect to a brand new Apple laptop until I restarted it 4 times, rebooted the Mac twice, and toggled the pairing mode about 8 times. And Bose headsets that don’t connect to iPhone for 2-3 attempts.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:10AM (#32162858)
That sounds more like an Apple Bluetooth stack issue at their OS level rather than something wrong with the Bluetooth chip/tech itself. It's where you should complain to Apple or ask for refunds/replacements.

Granted, Apple is not alone here since both Google and Microsoft really botched their Bluetooth stacks on their OSs. Especially Google who hasn't learned you can't treat your C driver/embedded SW like front-end JS code.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by t_mann on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:22AM (#32162926)
'It's not Bluetooth's fault, everyone is just using it wrong' does not sound good.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by rat9988 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:38AM (#32163017)
'It's not Bluetooth's fault, Apple is just using it wrong'
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by t_mann on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:40AM (#32163029)
And Microsoft. And Google. According to the parent.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by EUROCARE on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @06:02AM (#32163546)
Well, fortunately these are not the only companies in the world. I have always had only great experience with Sony and Samsung Bluetooth devices (phones, headsets, other hardware).
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by x0x0 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:17AM (#32166976)
My $350 sony headphones regularly have trouble connecting to my macbook. While speaking, about once every 10 hours of use, I sound like a robot and have to power cycle them to make the mic work correctly.

If they're connected to my android phone while also connected to any other device (dual connection is a feature they tout), they play a tick sound every minute like a terrible metronome.

I'm incredibly sympathetic to Apple deciding everything about bluetooth is hot garbage and building an alternative for audio.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by rvnx on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @06:23AM (#32163691)
I'm curious if you found a way to connect a Sony Bluetooth headset to a Mac and have both audio playing and microphone active, basically have a conversation. If you know please share, I never got such functioning, always either I can play audio, or I can record audio, but never both at the same time.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by EUROCARE on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:26AM (#32165475)
Yeah, I have Sony WH1000-XM2 and XM5 and both work perfectly for Zoom and other video calls with my MacBook Air (M1) as well as my MacBook Pro (Intel 2019), I'm using it daily for work. Zero configuration, just pair and go. Sorry I can't help you with setting it up but I really didn't have to do anything, it worked immediately all by itself.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by rvnx on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:29AM (#32165520)
Thank you, I have the XM3 so somehow now I know that it's possible.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by Nuthen on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:29AM (#32167196)
Have the XM3 as well but I use Windows. This is an annoying issue with current Bluetooth headphones. Basically your choice is high quality audio but no microphone, or low quality audio with microphone. When you have the headphones connected it should offer 2 different sound outputs. One for stereo and one for hands free audio. If the stereo output is active then the microphone won't work at all.

Edit: Here's a post that explains the issue better than I can. https://www.reddit.com/r/sony/comments/fqf71z/wh1000xm3_can_...

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by Groxx on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @03:04PM (#32170630)
For those with bluetooth woes:

I've had better luck in all operating systems with a stand-alone USB bluetooth audio dongle: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B089PYFLBN

It's not perfect, but the combination of "you can select the codec" and "the bluetooth stack is 100% out of the hands of the OS" gave me dramatically better results on almost every headset I tried.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:29AM (#32162969)
I mean, if I give you a hammer, and you use it to drive nails by hitting them with the handle, then it's not really the hammer's fault, is it?

What makes complex tech components like Bluetooth any different?

Also, Bluetooth isn't a single product made by a single company that dictates the standard and has the golden implementation.

To have Bluetooth audio between your phone and you PC for example, you can have different Bluetooth chips on each device, each with its own different firmware, then the OS on your PC and phone has a different driver and stack that interfaces to the Bluetooth chip and then there's the antenna design which links the two Bluetooth chips via the air. All these pieces need to come together in perfect harmony for you to enjoy seamless audio between two device.

If any of the manufacturers fucked up the antenna design, or the firmware on the chip, or the driver/stack on the OS, then your entire experience can fall apart and testing/debugging these thousands of permutations of various different pieces is nearly impossible. That's why Apple usually goes their own route towards proprietary tech they can fully control over the entire stack.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by michaelt on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @06:35AM (#32163755)
> What makes complex tech components like Bluetooth any different?

A hammer will be reliable if the user uses it correctly, which it's possible to do.

With bluetooth I have the most popular, widely sold smartphone and the most popular, widely sold sports watch. They both claim to be compatible. I'm using both precisely as instructed. And sometimes they just.... don't see one another.

This isn't user error.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by Groxx on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @03:07PM (#32170659)
Particularly with watches! So many of them are hot garbage at connectivity.

I miss my Pebble :( Though the Bangle.js and other "just uses bluetooth LE" devices have been essentially perfect connectivity as well. LE seems pretty reliable.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @06:51AM (#32163879)
Sorry but you completely misunderstood my argument. In this example you are not the customer of the hammer, as you're not the one buying the Bluetooth chips and SW/FW for them, but the phone/widget manufacturer is buying the hammer(chips) and he's responsible for using it correctly (FW and antenna design) to build a product where Bluetooth works well.

But like I said in the comment above, if the phone/widget manufacturer fucks up the Bluetooth implementation (misuses the hammer) because they cheap out and buy the cheapest no-name Bluetooth chips they can find on the market instead of buying from established companies, and then farm out the FW and antenna design to the cheapest sweatshop in Shenzhen, Bangalore or Eastern Europe since cost cutting and crunch in the consumer hardware industry is rampant and everything gets nickel and dimed to fractions of a cent while being rushed out the door to meet Christmas sales season or some other arbitrary product release deadline, then the phone/widget manufacturer who sold you the device is to blame for the rushed and buggy implementation, not Bluetooth itself.

So to conclude, if your bluetooth phone and watch are buggy, then blame their manufacturers for improper Bluetooth implementation and validation and ask for fixes/replacements/refunds, as a correct Bluetooth implementation is possible to do if you hire skilled engineers ($$$) and give them time to perform validation tests (more $$$), but instead, most of the widget manufacturers(including car companies) cheap out, like I said before, and cut dozens of corners to get their product out the door quickly and cheaply so they can skim more of the profits.

I hope it's clear now.

Source: Former FW engineer for Bluetooth widgets

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by worthless-trash on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:11AM (#32162871)
Apple have really, really weird BT stack issues.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by joecool1029 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:44AM (#32163049)
Legit everyone does. I one time had to convince a VW dealership to read a TSB issued for my 2012 Golf Cheater Edition, bluetooth only played the left channel of audio, but it played on both sides, so you needed music that was different enough on each channel to really notice. Dealership didn't want to believe me until I showed them left/right channel tests on youtube on both android and iphones and told them to use their own phones to test. It took about an hour to flash the repaired firmware on.

Android is on its like 3rd bluetooth stack now? Gabeldorsche, since the meme is rewriting in rust. Every device can support a different number of codecs, everything works on the fallback (or should) but the high definition codecs are a crapshoot.

I remember getting the first gen iphone SE and having a radar open with Apple as all bluetooth audio sounded like it was playing through tin foil speakers, they did fix it but here was the original thread on it: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7521352

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by worthless-trash on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @09:44PM (#32174803)
Props on getting a response from apple. I've had significantly worse fun getting their security team around that time to respond.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by RedShift1 on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @05:57AM (#32163506)
On my Macbook Pro, when bluetooth is on, the bluetooth process uses 100% CPU. So I turn off bluetooth, process goes away, but every once in a while it turns itself on without me asking, bye battery life -_-
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by wildrhythms on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @07:22AM (#32164154)
I find that my Apple Macbooks (I have a couple) tend to try to pair with my headphones more "aggressively" than any other device, even when my Macbook has its lid closed and in my backpack, it immediately jumps in and pairs with things that I'm trying to pair with something else (my phone usually). Very annoying
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by rootusrootus on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:28AM (#32167164)
It sounds like something specific to that person's piece of hardware. I use my AirPods multiple times a day, every day, swapping back and forth between my MBP and my iPhone. Occasionally it's slow to realize which device I wanted it to connect to, but I've not once had to reboot the phone.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by neurostimulant on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @07:07AM (#32164017)
This is one of the reason why I prefer to use a usb-c bluetooth audio dongle to use my bluetooth headphones. I have multiple bluetooth headphones and multiple devices that can use them, so switching the headphones between those devices got old very quickly. Now I just plug the bluetooth audio dongle to the device I currently use (pc, laptop, or phone) and turn on the bluetooth headphone I want to use, and it's done. I basically turned the bluetooth headphones into a virtually wired headphones now.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by matsemann on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:17AM (#32162906)
I sometimes wonder if it's almost deliberate incompetence on Apple's side, to make it seem even more lucrative to buy everything from them. My GF and I sometimes switch/borrow each other earphones and other gear, and she has loads of problems connecting to her Mac or iPhone. Like the Sony MX3000 something she has to reconnect every half an hour or they will be out of sync with the show she's watching on her laptop by a second or so. But for me never issues like that on Android/Dell.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by oynqr on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @04:27AM (#32162951)
Judging from other comments, there are still lots of bluetooth problems even if all if your devices are Apple ones.
Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by saiya-jin on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @07:12AM (#32164065)
Oh yes. Colleague has latest iphone 13 pro max, and latest airpods pro. Even this basic apple-apple setup is failing him numerous times, and you would expect this pair to be tweaked to perfection for that price. Conf calls where he had to give up pairing attempts and had to do it via phone. I could understand busy office space interference, but he has same issues at home.

I have Samsung S22 ultra and Sennheiser momentum 2 buds. Pairing works 100% anywhere immediately with aptx (unfortunately they don't support HD variant of codecs). But if I do press play, first 1-2 seconds the music is some ugly skipping. I would rather prefer it to be quiet for longer.

Re:Bluetooth remains an 'unusually painful' technology after... by rootusrootus on Wednesday July 20, 2022 @11:29AM (#32167203)
Judging from all the comments, this is situational. I have a pair of MX4000s that I use when I want noise canceling, and aside from being finicky and slow to reconnect sometimes, once they're connected they're fine. No random disconnects.

But I can also walk halfway across my house and bluetooth doesn't drop until just about the time I reach my refrigerator, so I may have an exceptionally low noise floor where I live.