“We must not do anything about recent thing that is very bad and unpredictable because of this other thing which is also quite bad but we’ve been learning to manage it for 15 years”

However instead of regulating everyone, banning one player and leaving the opportunity for others (including new players) to continue "bad thing" is not a good solution, is it?

Meta is already extremely regulated, both by governments and externally managed processes like the oversight board. If TikTok were an American corporation that played by the same rules, it would be a massive improvement.

It's better than doing nothing!

If you want to argue for more laws, go ahead. But don't do this whataboutism where you pretend like you care about these issues, and argue against ways of stopping, at least some of the bad things happening.

Help me understand your perspective: are you American or no? I have a hard time understanding why an American wouldn't see FAANG as the lesser of two evils here.

Conversely, if you're an American in America who doesn't travel abroad what is the threat TikTok poses when compared to the FAANGs? Given the cozy relationship between the US and FAANGs I think it's possible to argue that unfettered government access to FAANG data is more of a threat (to the average US citizen) when compared to the Chinese government having access to your user data via TikTok. But I'm not set on any of this and would like to understand more.

>if you're an American in America who doesn't travel abroad what is the threat TikTok poses when compared to the FAANGs?

They could intentionally influence the public opinion about anything, e.g., elections.

I trust China more than the Koch brothers.

You trust them to do what?

Not do this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Ko...

A healthy middle-class in America, with immediate needs like healthcare and housing met, is China's best interests as that means Americans have more money to spend on consumer goods.

The Koch Brothers want to dismantle all the organs of state they don't approve of.

How about these? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23480918, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23506580.

And the FBI backdoored skype to silently shut off encryption, back when it was truly peer-to-peer.

China never did that to me.

So you think fair elections are less important than your own security? You may have a problem after your country turns authoritarian, even if your computer is secure.

We don't have "fair" elections after Citizen's United.

We don't have "fair" elections after the FCC scrapped the Fairness Doctrine in the 80s under Regan.

We don't have "fair" elections for the president since we don't directly elect the president.

The scenario where china somehow designs a dastardly TikTok video that convinces---I'm sorry "manipulates"---young people to vote en mass in a way that somehow advances the national interests of China and against their own material concerns is remote. But, I'm not sure how that's worse than any other garden variety Super PAC, or billionaire debutante like Mike Bloomberg or Howard Schultz.

Sure, your elections have a lot of problems. Don't you think you should fight that and not introduce more problems, "because it's already bad"?

> The scenario where china ... "manipulates" ... young people to vote en mass in a way that somehow advances the national interests of China is remote

Didn't it already happen with Russia affecting the elections via Facebook?

They, allegedly, bought ads like anyone else would have. Did that ~$100k ad buy stop Hillary from campaigning in the Mid West and visiting Wisconsin?

I'm pretty sure Facebook's already been doing that the past few years.

True, but do you want more of it from a totalitarian government?

you mean like Cambridge Analytica and Facebook?

It is not a threat to individual safety. It is a threat to the security of the nation at large.

They’re all nefarious. Your data should not be in the hands of any data broker or Government without explicit consent.

But if you wanna beat the drum of Jingoism, here is a counter argument: the Chinese Government has little interest in the activities of most domestic US citizens. Its the US Federal Government that cares if American citizens are feeling too rebellious.

>Chinese Government has little interest in the activities of most domestic US citizens.

Including influencing public perception of domestic and international events? You may as well say the Chinese government doesn't care about world politics.

Also it's not "Jingoist" to assume that a foreign government (with whom we've had friction) has less of our interests in mind than our own government.

I am not Op neither an American.

Practically, I'll be more concerned about my government having the data vs a third world. I rarely get involved in Chinese politics/threads and have little interaction with them except everything is manufactured there. I may visit China/Taiwan/Hong Kong as a tourist sometime in future.

For my own country I am actively interested in and sometime involved in political discussions/forums. I have stronger opinion in favour/against current government and will have lot more influence on my local.

So the govt./org. trying to suppress/persecute me will be with high probability my own vs China or Russia.

not an american, but don't forget that america strives on democracy, which means approx the same laws for everyone.

killing tiktok because it's too successful will undermine US credibility as a fair entity in any kind of business negociation, with any country.

I wouldn't be surprised if this case would be used later by the EU in regulating FAANGs even more and inventing taxes just for them ( which, as a european i find completely outrageous, for the same reasons).

Not an American, but if I was:

FAANG has a data sharing mandate with the US government. My own government spying on me is more dangerous than some foreign government spying on me, because it is unlikely I wake up looking into the barrel of a Chinese exfiltration team at three in the night. Getting woken at gunpoint by the local village idiot/Sheriff because they don't like my surfing pattern is a lot more likely.

You don't have to be American to see American big-tech companies as the lesser of two evils here.

Because the biggest threat to you is your own government, not one half a world away.

The Chinese government isn't going to use nefariously collected data about you in order to get a search warrant or something. The American one is.

I am in fact American. Just being real-- everyone has our data already.

Not just FAANG! Smaller vendors are a very significant threat vector, too, precisely because they are smaller. More owners with smaller margins, looking to squeeze the last bit of profit from the available data, thus entering grey areas almost by definition. Entire markets emerged just from this - afaik data brokers dont get access to, say, Apples Databases. At least FAANG has no real business incentive to sell the data directly.

It's not just FAANG, because of the CloudAct it's the US agencies too

Sorry for stating the obvious, but for US authorities having the world’s data in the hands of an American company is a strategic asset, having it in the hands of a Chinese company is a strategic liability.

Indeed. It’s surprising this isn’t coming from the CIA or the NSA. But then maybe it is.

The dance around that issue will be more entertaining than any dance skit we will see on TikTok. Avoidance of addressing it is the reason Tiktok has been allowed to run as long as it has. Push surveillance capitalism to the max and expose the hypocrisy that can bring down one of America's biggest industries. Well played China!

The Chinese government censors posts on social media. It’s nefarious by design. Nothing like that happens with FAANG.

really? where were you during covid?

imagine thinking faang is a free speech haven, yikes lol. people in this thread are deliberately pretending faang is all good.

Trying to get vaccinated at CVS.