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Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by mercy_dude on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:16AM (#32117301)
Lol this is Newyorker. They are poster child fanboy of Bernanke-Yellen-Powell club who brought this mess on to us.

This article does not bring up the key issue that we have had in last 15yrs post GFC - motivation of having endless QE. At some point everyone knew there would be repercussions but everyone looked the other way and was like “trust the fed” or “don’t fight the Fed”. Just kicking the can down the road.

Well now Fed has its hands tied. It can’t raise rates too fast or the economy craters. The other option is let the inflation run hot.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by bryanlarsen on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:43AM (#32117997)
A stopped clock is right twice a day. People have been screaming about QE for 15 years and about government deficits for the last 50. So it seems fairly bloody obvious that the unique things about today's economy are caused by the blindingly obvious unique issues in today's economy like supply shocks rather than the things that are the same as they are when we didn't have problems.

The only things that have a strong correlation with recessions are rising interest rates and balanced budgets. So maybe we should stop doing the things that are known to cause recession?

Debt is money and that an economy needs money to function. And if an economy is growing, it needs more money, which means either more personal or more corporate or more government borrowing.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by baq on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:10AM (#32118294)
Given a choice between a recession and runaway inflation, a competent central banker will choose recession any day of the week. Recession makes people’s lives miserable, but inflation blows up societies.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by toomuchtodo on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:21AM (#32118402)
Can you encourage price stability without a recession? Could the central bank create a recession that made peoples’ lives less miserable if they could target their economic activity destruction instead of the benchmark rate blunt hammer?

Perhaps the problem is a steady state versus growth model economic configuration, and we also need finer grained control over stimulating or discouraging very specific economic activities.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by SpicyLemonZest on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:46AM (#32118670)
It’s hard to imagine a more targeted control than the benchmark rate, which has a direct impact only on people who manage money for a living and people who hold adjustable rate mortgages. It just manifests as a blunt hammer because the economy is interrelated, and I’d argue that any control big enough to make a difference will encounter this.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by doytch on Saturday July 16, 2022 @11:00AM (#32118785)
> people who hold adjustable rate mortgages

This is the vast majority of homeowners in most countries.

Which also spills into rent costs, of course.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @07:52PM (#32123032)
We need negative interest rates instead of the quantitative easing nonsense.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by asah on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:01AM (#32118177)
I don't have a problem with debt if it's spent on R&D. But we pay one person to dig ditches and another to fill them, and say "see we created two jobs!" and both guys vote for that politician.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by SkyMarshal on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:11AM (#32118303)
We don’t really pay one person to dig ditches and another to fill them. Is there something more concrete and real that you’re concerned about?
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by asah on Saturday July 16, 2022 @11:54AM (#32119283)
We pay a food company to feed a person calories they don't need so they develop diabetes etc which we pay doctor to cure, insurance company to adjudicate and drug company to medicate. We build roads and buildings and cars designed to require excessive maintenance and then wear out early, e.g. cheap uncoated metals. We develop JavaScript frameworks, rando databases, hipster languages etc and educate/certify people in them, write millions of LOC then replace them a few years later. This is shallow innovation and it's a crazy amount of make-work.

There's an alternative, which is to ask whether something EVEN HAS A CHANCE of being relevant in 10 years. Experimentation and risk-taking is fine, hamster-wheeling and "bullshit jobs" are a waste of life and destroy the earth, for little benefit.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by pawsforthought on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:42PM (#32119685)
More absurdity:

Slap on sunscreen, then use statins to counter the high blood pressure (rather than get free exposure to the sunlight we all evolved to live under).

Have both parents in full-time employment, while kids get warehoused in daycare.

Overwork people to the point they have neither time nor inclination to cook for themselves from scratch, instead using meal kits, ready meals, takeout, restaurants.

Alienate people from their own bodies with manipulative marketing that weaponizes their insecurities against them, then patch up the self-esteem with totally unnecessary cosmetics, gyms, fashion, surgeries, etc.

All these activities fatten GDP, but which of them really represent human flourishing?

We measure the wrong things, at least in part because the right things so often cannot be measured. We need to trust in the unmeasurable, but that is antithetical to the technocrat.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by mercy_dude on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:57PM (#32119833)
> slap on sunscreen, then use statins to counter blood pressure.

I have always thought most of the sunscreen products we have today have shady ingredients by just looking at the list of endless number of chemicals. I mean why do we need 50+ chemicals in a product when just zinc oxide can do. This was confirmed when Neutrogena last year had to tee all some of their sunscreen products last year. Increasing blood pressure is a new one I haven’t heard of before.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by pawsforthought on Sunday July 17, 2022 @03:56AM (#32125198)
I elided a whole lot of detail, but the claim is that exposure to sunlight is implicated not just in vitamin D production, but also in a whole raft of beneficial biochemical processes, including nitric oxide release from stores in the skin [1]. This promotes vasodilation, thereby lowering blood pressure (and indeed, all-cause mortality [2]).

The interventionist’s prescription, though, is to always wear sunscreen, to take vitamin D supplements, and to take statins to control blood pressure.

I suppose my original point was that this represents a perverse exercise in ditch digging and filling. Using one expensive product to block the sunlight we evolved under, then using yet more products to compensate for the disrupted natural functioning of our skin (which we likely don’t fully understand anyway, so the counter-interventions are a partial remedy at best).

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6830553/ [2]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26992108/

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by SkyMarshal on Saturday July 16, 2022 @04:38PM (#32121754)
> There's an alternative, which is to ask whether something EVEN HAS A CHANCE of being relevant in 10 years. Experimentation and risk-taking is fine, hamster-wheeling and "bullshit jobs" are a waste of life and destroy the earth, for little benefit.

I sympathize with this sentiment, but it's impossible in practice to reliably predict what will be relevant in 10 years.

Also, I don't believe it's possible to get the signal without the noise. I've even come to believe the noise may be the generator of signal. We live in a probabilistic universe, not a deterministic one.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by unicornmama on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:29AM (#32118497)
An architect designs a house fragile to earthquakes. Surprise! An earthquake happens, the house collapses, many deaths! Who is responsible, the earthquake or the architect?
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by bryanlarsen on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:45PM (#32119727)
An earthquake happens annually for decades and the house is fine. One year an earthquake and a hurricane happens and the house falls down. Do you blame the earthquake or the hurricane?
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:06PM (#32123098)
It is more like you have the option of bribing the earth quake to happen later with the same intensity, any sane person would bribe the earth quake to happen as late as possible.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by lumost on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:20AM (#32118401)
Maybe too much of our money supply is derived from debt? If the economy needs fresh money printed, it may need to be delivered via actual printing and distribution.

Pre fiat, economies did have continuous injections of gold and silver mining to provide debt free money supply. Would it be wrong to QE via direct printing and government spending? At least then we may get roads, bridges, and other societal assets out of QE vs record prices for picasso’s.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @07:55PM (#32123049)
Come on just introduce negative interest rates on cash. We can reduce the money supply and people can reduce their work weeks instead of accumulating savings that get eroded by inflation.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by lumost on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:30PM (#32123245)
Negative interest rates would be both an inflation incentive and an direct money transfer to banks?
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by denton-scratch on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:14AM (#32118342)
> Debt is money

Please excuse my economic ignorance.

In the absence of money (or debt), we are reduced to barter. I give you a donkey, you provide me with grain for a month.

But suppose you don't need a donkey? Well, you can trade it for something you do want; so the donkey is now a medium of exchange, i.e. money. Instead of carrying donkeys around, you can instead carry some token, with the legend "I promise to pay the bearer on demand one donkey". You could even stamp a donkey's head on the token.

> if an economy is growing, it needs more money

I get that. But why does that mean the government has to print money (or buy back government bonds, or whatever)? Why does the market not automatically synthesise the means of exchange that lubricate the matching of supply and demand? Is it simply because a barter economy is inefficient? But then why doesn't a barter economy automatically produce means of exchange that are efficient?

Again, I apologise for my manifest ignorance.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by deeg on Saturday July 16, 2022 @11:42AM (#32119181)
The notion of money is very complex and there are multiple schools of thought but here's one way to look at it:

Say you give me a donkey and I give you an "IOU - one donkey or equivalent". That IOU represents my debt to you. If my reputation is good, you could trade that IOU to someone else for say, 10 chickens, you pass my debt to them. If my reputation is really good, your town could pass my IOU around for different goods and then my IOU acts just like money.

Cash (and money) works the same way as an IOU. It's just that the owner of the debt is abstract and far removed from the holder of the cash.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by denton-scratch on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:41PM (#32119680)
I get that cash is basically an IOU. I also get that an IOU doesn't really require any token; a shake of hands is enough to establish a debt, which is the same as money.

So it seems that in an economy without money, money will arise automatically, in the form of debts that are to a greater or lesser extent formalised. So why do economies need central banks? What's wrong with that kind of "informal money"?

I have a strong suspicion that we don't; that it's governments that need central banks.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by ArnoVW on Saturday July 16, 2022 @06:28PM (#32122528)
We created central banks after the organically grown system crashed spectacularly a couple of times.

This is generally the way we react to that sort of things. And even if things still sometimes break (in slightly different ways than before) these systems have allowed us enormous amounts of economic growth.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:03PM (#32123089)
We don't need central banks as they are today. We need something like a demurrage currency, once you have that you can control the velocity of money, once the velocity of money is known, you can do price level targeting via monetarism aka no inflation or deflation.

The central bank won't have to set the interest rates anymore if the reserve requirement is something sane like 20% or 30% as banks are limited in their bank reserves and thus incentivized to choose the right interest rate for themselves. This also eliminates the need for QE.

You still need the central bank as an inter banking network by the way.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by aluminaient on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:45AM (#32118661)
Screaming for 15-50 years.... and almost instantly all the fears come true. Citing the blink of an eye that is half a century as if it is long term proof of anything is the exact breed of short sighted egotism than got us here.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:04PM (#32123092)
No that is just a feature of permanent money, it collapses in the end because the whole idea is insane to start with. 3% interest for two thousand years is galaxies worth of colonized planets.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by Aunche on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:11AM (#32118301)
The problem isn't the Fed. The problem is that elected politicians use the majority of their bandwidth to bribe and advertise to voters, and dedicate relatively little time to actually improving the nation in ways that aren't obviously visible. You can't fix the government deficit, poor regulation, or inefficient government spending with exceptional monetary policy.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by frgtpsswrdlame on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:50AM (#32117516)
Did you read it? They explicitly do talk about Quantitative Easing following 2008...
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by iso1631 on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:04AM (#32117624)
The internet believes the main driver of inflation is "money printing" in the US, and nothing to do with the post covid supply squeeze or the current energy crisis

The correct solution to avoid being at the wim of such friendly countries as Russia, Saudi, and China would be for Japan, Europe, the US, to massively invest in increasing internal free (renewable) energy sources, and diversifying strategic imports like silicon chips.

From 2015-2017 in the US renewable production increased from 558TWh to 710TWh, a 13% increase per year. Staying at that rate for the next 5 years would have put US renewable at 1,300TWh today or 31% - 500TWh more than today, leaving 500TWh of gas and oil to be used elsewhere and reducing the power of Russia and Saudi over the global economy. By 2030 the US would have hit 3,500TWh, up to wards 100% of current electric generation, and by 2040 at the latest to include the extra electric load from things like battery cars.

But instead the US didn't.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by mercy_dude on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:18AM (#32117738)
I am not disagreeing the supply side squeeze but this has been happening since 2020. If you look at container flow stat it is clear as early as 2021 we had severe clogging issues. The problem was the narrative back then from Fed was that this is all transitory. They didn’t act.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by SkyMarshal on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:18AM (#32118379)
If the problem was a supply side squeeze, the Fed has no mandate or tools for that. They couldn’t act. That’s on the govt and private sector to solve.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by mercy_dude on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:42PM (#32119689)
That’s not true. You can reduce household demands by raising the rates which is what they are trying to do now. But the challenge is now the inflation has outpaced them and Fed has missed the mark by quite a bit. Heck they are now taking about raising rate by 100 basis point. A year ago this was unthinkable when meme stocks were on the fly. But you can’t raise the rates fast and not cause spiral in for example liquidity or repo market.

Point is Fed has done a lot of damage. In a functioning democracy, Fed chair would be summoned by congress and Fed would be held responsible for not keeping its dual mandate - price stability (which inflation is causing wreckage) and unemployment ( from an impending recession). If a Fed agency can’t keep its mandate, it’s time to look at its validity.

But of course our elected leaders won’t. They love nothing but delegating to unelected agencies full of so called experts so they don’t have to make hard choices/decisions and bear the consequences from voters. So they just shield themselves with experts.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by SkyMarshal on Saturday July 16, 2022 @04:34PM (#32121707)
> That’s not true. You can reduce household demands by raising the rates which is what they are trying to do now.

That changes demand, not supply, as you astutely observe. Fed has no tools for supply, by design.

That's why they've pushing back on the US govt recently, talking publicly about how current inflation is 30% due to demand (oversupply of money, low interest rates) and 50% due to supply constraints (food, energy, and Asian supply chain slowdowns). They're telling the US govt that solving inflation will require govt and private sector solutions to the supply problems. The Fed has no tools for those.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by analyst74 on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:36AM (#32117914)
Supply chain disruption is only a problem because central banks from around the world tried to print out of the pandemic.

If they just let market run its course, we'd have a severe recession caused by shutdowns and job losses in early 2020. Demand for consumer goods would be significantly reduced and the crippled supply would be sufficient.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by lotsofpulp on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:08AM (#32118267)
Supply of labor for the lowest paying jobs has been trending down since a decade ago (based on prices for those jobs having gone up since then). The bottom few income/wealth deciles have finally gained some negotiating ground, and so they can demand higher wages for late night work, customer service work, food service work, cleaning, and all that good stuff that allowed for cheaper products/services at all hours of day.

If I were to guess, the labor supply for those types of jobs will continue to decline, so I do not think there is any short term way to counter that factor of inflation without lowering expected quality of life or some miraculous automation innovations.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by denton-scratch on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:24AM (#32118442)
> some miraculous automation innovations

They don't have to be miraculous. In the UK, Brexit has caused the supply of ultra-cheap East European fruit-picking labour to dry up. Fruit growers are consequently now investing in automating fruit-picking.

Automation is simply engineering; these problems don't require miraculous inventions. Anyone can build a machine to pick a strawberry. The trick is building one to a price-point, that can pick an entire polytunnel clean, without damaging the fruit too much. It's not innovation, it's just applying stuff we already know to solve practical problems.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by briHass on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:58AM (#32118773)
The lockdowns wouldn't have been possible without the PUA cash infusions; people wouldn't have tolerated it for more than a few days.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by inglor_cz on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:50AM (#32118696)
I just read a German interview with two technical professors about energy security in Germany.

They warned that massive investments into windmills and solar MUST be accompanied by massive investments into the grid, and that Germany fails spectacularly in the latter, especially because of onerous regulation and incessant NIMBYism. Namely, a lot of power from renewables is being produced in northern Germany and the shallow seas around it, where the country is only sparsely inhabited, and it is almost impossible to get this power in adequate volumes to the consumers in the highly developed and power-hungry regions in the south - Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg.

One of them also stated that Germany managed to build only about a fifth of the necessary network of new power lines in the last decade.

Greetings from Europe. It is not really any better here. Logistics is hard. Logistics in electricity doubly so.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by incrudible on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:17AM (#32118369)
The main driver of price inflation is money printing, but you need to account for where that money goes. Stock and real estate prices did experience massive inflation. The CPI does not account for this. Print money that can only be spent on hamburgers and sure enough, hamburgers will experience price inflation as well.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by iso1631 on Saturday July 16, 2022 @02:25PM (#32120560)
In England and Wales the median house price to median wage ratio in 1997 was 3.55. By 2007 this was 7.17. It dipped to 6.35 in 2009 before recovering.

In 2019 it was 7.73, despite interest rates having dropped from about 6% to under 1%, making mortgages far more affordable. The monthly cost of buying a home (which is what mainly drives the price).

In 1997 it cost 27% of the median gross income for a 90% 30 year mortgage on a median house at the 7% base rate.

In 2007 it cost 44% with a rate of 5.25%

In 2019 it cost 25% with a rate of 0.5%

Today it costs 32% with a rate of 1.25%

How do you explain Quantative Easing from 2007 to 2019, coupled with historically low interest rates, barely touching house prices. How do you explain house prices doubling from 1997 to 2007 without Quantative Easing?

Or did the QE in the UK not go into real estate market?

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by incrudible on Monday July 18, 2022 @07:16AM (#32136865)
"The median house in the UK" isn't a particularly attractive asset to anyone except those who want to live in there, which isn't that many people.

Instead, you should be looking at the top locations that attract investment capital, such as London, which has experienced a much steeper price trajectory:

https://pearsonblog.campaignserver.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/...

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:11PM (#32123124)
People don't seem to grasp that lower interest rates make it cheaper to build new housing but more expensive to buy existing housing. Existing housing sits on land that appreciates in value, that is the primary driving force of higher real estate prices. The two effects basically cancel each other out.
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by seibelj on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:19AM (#32117751)
You are in fantasy land if you think solar and wind could replace fossil fuels. Battery tech is (hopefully) a decade away and you can’t get over transmission issues to cloudier places.

The correct answer is nuclear and investing in our own fossil fuel industry.

Furthermore you are advocating for supply side economics. Totally agree - we need to cut taxes massively on business and encourage everything we can do for the private sector to invest in more supply production - of everything! But the left endlessly attacks business and sees them as the enemy, which results in less production and higher prices.

Fantasy land everywhere.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by another_story on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:12AM (#32118316)
The op said renewable could replace the electricity generation and load from more EV batteries. They also said it would reduce reliance on those countries. Where is the fantasy?
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by mercy_dude on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:52AM (#32117538)
Yes, where did the mention the culprits- Bernanke/Yellen/Powell. I still can’t fathom why they kept buying bonds even as far out as they did. They could have easily raise the rates in 2011, they didn’t.

For example, why did the Fed went out of their way last year calling it transitory?

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by meltyness on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:06AM (#32118245)
Likely due to the doctrine that talking about "a cluster and time period of negative sentiment and contracting investment" is capable of being the impetus for "a cluster and time period of negative sentiment and contracting investment"
Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by whoomp12342 on Saturday July 16, 2022 @09:22AM (#32117776)
fed will raise rates. CPI is STILL on an upward trajectory.