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Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by denton-scratch on Saturday July 16, 2022 @10:14AM (#32118342)
> Debt is money

Please excuse my economic ignorance.

In the absence of money (or debt), we are reduced to barter. I give you a donkey, you provide me with grain for a month.

But suppose you don't need a donkey? Well, you can trade it for something you do want; so the donkey is now a medium of exchange, i.e. money. Instead of carrying donkeys around, you can instead carry some token, with the legend "I promise to pay the bearer on demand one donkey". You could even stamp a donkey's head on the token.

> if an economy is growing, it needs more money

I get that. But why does that mean the government has to print money (or buy back government bonds, or whatever)? Why does the market not automatically synthesise the means of exchange that lubricate the matching of supply and demand? Is it simply because a barter economy is inefficient? But then why doesn't a barter economy automatically produce means of exchange that are efficient?

Again, I apologise for my manifest ignorance.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by deeg on Saturday July 16, 2022 @11:42AM (#32119181)
The notion of money is very complex and there are multiple schools of thought but here's one way to look at it:

Say you give me a donkey and I give you an "IOU - one donkey or equivalent". That IOU represents my debt to you. If my reputation is good, you could trade that IOU to someone else for say, 10 chickens, you pass my debt to them. If my reputation is really good, your town could pass my IOU around for different goods and then my IOU acts just like money.

Cash (and money) works the same way as an IOU. It's just that the owner of the debt is abstract and far removed from the holder of the cash.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by denton-scratch on Saturday July 16, 2022 @12:41PM (#32119680)
I get that cash is basically an IOU. I also get that an IOU doesn't really require any token; a shake of hands is enough to establish a debt, which is the same as money.

So it seems that in an economy without money, money will arise automatically, in the form of debts that are to a greater or lesser extent formalised. So why do economies need central banks? What's wrong with that kind of "informal money"?

I have a strong suspicion that we don't; that it's governments that need central banks.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by ArnoVW on Saturday July 16, 2022 @06:28PM (#32122528)
We created central banks after the organically grown system crashed spectacularly a couple of times.

This is generally the way we react to that sort of things. And even if things still sometimes break (in slightly different ways than before) these systems have allowed us enormous amounts of economic growth.

Re:How Not to Fight Inflation by imtringued on Saturday July 16, 2022 @08:03PM (#32123089)
We don't need central banks as they are today. We need something like a demurrage currency, once you have that you can control the velocity of money, once the velocity of money is known, you can do price level targeting via monetarism aka no inflation or deflation.

The central bank won't have to set the interest rates anymore if the reserve requirement is something sane like 20% or 30% as banks are limited in their bank reserves and thus incentivized to choose the right interest rate for themselves. This also eliminates the need for QE.

You still need the central bank as an inter banking network by the way.