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Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by LAC-Tech on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:11PM (#32021812)
The UK is much authoritarian than people give it credit for. Official state media, convicting comedians for offensive jokes, laws restricting speech...

But most Brits will say all of the above is fine, even necessary. It's eerie how similar these conversations are to ones I've had with people from countries generally considered authoritarian in the west.

The general conclusion I draw is that people will justify and put up with a fair amount of authoritarianism if they feel it targets the right people, or maintains the kind of society they want to live in. If you're a "good citizen" and it doesn't effect you it's hard to be principled if it's mainly targeting people you consider dregs.

EDIT: changed "State run media" to "Official state media" per conversation below..

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by jahnu on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:54PM (#32022493)
Even as official state media it doesn’t quite capture the complicated relationship between the BBC, it’s reporters, management, and the government. Take for example how it covered the Northern Ireland Troubles

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/oct/22/how...

I grew up watching BBC Northern Ireland and also the Irish equivalent of the BBC, RTE and witnessed at least two different versions of reality every evening. Many competing interests were involved and many on all sides were genuinely acting in good faith within their respective systems.

As a point of contrast, I feel like US mainstream news is even more beholden to special interests, including that of the government, than either the BBC or RTE ever were. So being nominally free of state control doesn’t mean a whole lot in reality it seems to me.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by pjc50 on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:25AM (#32024355)
Part of that is that the private media are actually more authoritarian than the state one. Remember the "enemies of the people" headline?

For a while as a minister Boris Johnson was paid more by the Times than his ministerial salary. Johnson gave Lebedev a peerage for using his papers, the Evening Standard and the Independent, to promote him. One of the few papers still defending him in his half-resigned state is the Daily Mail. The press have very much been calling the shots until now.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by jen20 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:16PM (#32021851)
To be clear, despite efforts of BBC News since 2016 to demonstrate otherwise, the BBC is funded by the license fee, with the exception of the world service. It is not controlled by the state.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by car_analogy on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:42PM (#32022043)
But ultimately the government decides who is in charge of the BBC, with only minor indirection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Board
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by pessimizer on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:00PM (#32022173)
And everybody who worked there was vetted by MI5 for political opinion: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43754737
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by bobsmooth on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:54PM (#32022492)
I guess being a nonce isn't "subversive".
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by LAC-Tech on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:23PM (#32021904)
You're right, "state-run" is perhaps a clumsy term to use, and doesn't quite capture the dynamics between the BBC and the government.

"Official state media" is more correct

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by femto on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:50PM (#32022110)
Under the Westminster system (UK, Australia, ...), the public service is supposed to be apolitical, 'frank and fearless’ and non-partisan. "Government run" isn't supposed to be equated with biased and partisan. The public service is there to serve the people rather than members of parliament.

Sadly, this ideal of the Westminster system has been under attack for the last decade or two. Secrecy has been broadly imposed on the public service and non-partisan department heads are sacked and replaced with political lackeys. The ideal isn't dead though. There are people in the public service who are trying to keep it non-partisan, and those efforts should be supported rather than it all being written off as a hopeless case.

[1] https://sef.psc.nsw.gov.au/nsw-government-context/the-westmi...

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by LAC-Tech on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:06PM (#32022202)
The public service are un-elected, largely unaccountable, very expensive and wield a tremendous amount of power.

Westminster type systems are arguably hybrid oligarchies. Australia is a good example - look how it continues to function in largely the same way, on largely the same trajectory, despite having 5 prime ministers in the last 10 years.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by bigDinosaur on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:19PM (#32022270)
What do you mean? The PM is a function of what the governing party wants, and in 10 years we've mostly only had a single party in Federal government. But either way, this isn't really true of state governments which have differed quite a lot over the past few years.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by mellosouls on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:35PM (#32021991)
"Public service broadcaster" is even more correct.

Your original comment had truth to it but bundling the BBC in undermined that, however you define it here.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by LAC-Tech on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:38PM (#32022018)
What's the difference? Your term sounds like mine but dressed in less neutral, more positive language.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by mellosouls on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:45PM (#32022071)
I don't think it's less neutral - your (non-standard) definition conveys the idea of government mouthpiece which supports your original comment but doesn't reflect the BBC's history or mission.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by LAC-Tech on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:54PM (#32022136)
Didn't intend to convey it was a mouth piece for the government. But it's definitely official, and definitely a state institution, even the tail wags the dog a lot more than say XinHua.

"Public Service" is plainly a positive term though. It lends an air of altruism. Not particularly interested in what nomenclature is standard (according to who? 7 etc etc).

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by charlieyu1 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @10:58PM (#32022523)
I am moving from Hong Kong to UK and I’d say most of these are not fine. Sadly it is probably the only route to escape Hong Kong that is accessible to most people here.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by Lio on Friday July 08, 2022 @05:50AM (#32024949)
I can remember foreign owned private media (The Sun) trying to frame a football match as an extension of World War II. I also remember when that same foreign owned newspaper boasted about manipulating the results of our elections.

I mention "foreign owned" twice because I don't think those that don't have a stake in our country should have so much influence on how it is run and definitely shouldn't be trying to stir up non-existent trouble with our allies.

Personally I'm OK with a public service broadcaster that's charged with being politically neutral.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by flir on Friday July 08, 2022 @05:28AM (#32024780)
> convicting comedians for offensive jokes

If that's referring to the case I think it's referring to, I'm very ok with that. There's no such thing as ironic racism.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by schrodinger on Friday July 08, 2022 @12:09AM (#32023030)
As a US citizen I am completely on the side of freedom of press but I wish there was SOME means of holding Fox News accountable especially since they're an unregulated propaganda machine of the extremist republicans…
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by DocTomoe on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:00AM (#32024120)
And still, when I think 'low-quality and probably life-destroying yellow press', I do not think United States, I think United Kingdom. Fox News feels almost liberal compared to the likes of the Daily Mail or (shudder) the Express.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by smcl on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:32AM (#32024404)
I dislike all of these organizations, but they're all peas in the same awful pod. Debating whether one is more liberal than another is like trying to figure out which of Himmler, Goering or Hitler was the least fascist. You might be able to get an answer but it doesn't mean anything given how terrible they all were.
Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by cowtools on Friday July 08, 2022 @12:19AM (#32023099)
accountable for what specifically? or do you just want more rigorous reporting in general?

TV is a dying medium, is it not? I'd say this problem of sensationalist TV news solves itself within a decade.

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by shapefrog on Friday July 08, 2022 @01:07AM (#32023468)
> accountable for what specifically?

For mis-selling entertainment, opinion and a poorly written soap opera as the "facts" or even "news".

Re:Met Police UK Live Facial Recognition by pjc50 on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:21AM (#32024305)
TV is being replaced by even more sensationalist and less accountable youtubers.