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Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by aaronbrethorst on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:30PM (#32019721)
Lots of other benefits come from removing urban tanks from the roads. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/suvs-other-large-vehicles-o...
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by teakettle42 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:34PM (#32019767)
Sounds like a good reason to create protected “no turn on red” crosswalks.

The state’s monopoly on violence should be used judiciously and sparingly to secure our individual rights, not as a catch-all tool for coercing (or outright forcing) people into making the choices you want them to.

Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by stefan_ on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:34PM (#32021088)
Yes, first and foremost the right to bodily integrity, since rights are no good if you are dead. The two biggest killers of people in the US who are otherwise many many years from dying are guns and cars, and in both cases a large number of those dead had neither a gun nor a car in the moment. If the state is going to use its monopoly on anything, it should obviously be those two.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by teakettle42 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @08:47PM (#32021645)
The state’s job isn’t to enforce prior restraint on others who have done nothing to violate your rights.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by tadfisher on Friday July 08, 2022 @12:22AM (#32023119)
The state's job is whatever we tell them it is. This is a democracy, not a want ad.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by teakettle42 on Sunday July 10, 2022 @03:08PM (#32047859)
If that’s the kind of tyrannical state and use of a monopoly on violence you aspire to, sure.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by piperswe on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:49PM (#32019938)
Then the state should stop building roads. Until that happens, they're free to regulate what vehicles can drive on those roads.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by WorldMaker on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:28PM (#32021030)
They can also enforce existing laws better. Don't forget that most states have had truck laws for a very long time. We know there is a direct linkage between vehicle weight and road maintenance costs. We've had laws that required vehicles to be weighed. We've had laws that taxed vehicles that exceeded certain weights on given roads. We've had laws banning vehicles of certain weights from certain roads. We could turn those laws "back on", get back to enforcing them better, adjust their fines and penalties to match a decade or three of inflation.

(For instance, Hummers are allegedly already technically illegal by weight on California residential streets. When was the last time that was enforced? When was the last time an owner paid fines on that?)

Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by TheCoelacanth on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:21PM (#32020317)
How about securing my right not to get killed by a dangerously large vehicle?
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by 6510 on Friday July 08, 2022 @06:55AM (#32025445)
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2012/10/electric-velomobiles...

This old article mentions a lot of advantages of electric velomobiles vs cars like doing average commutes in roughly the same time, dramatic increase in road capacity, tiny power consumption if everyone was to switch etc etc

But write-ups hardly ever mention how hard it is to damage a pedestrian with it. Crashes involving just velomobiles usually leave little more than a scratch.

Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by undersuit on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:39PM (#32019820)
I think it's OK for the government to ban vehicles from their roads.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by vimwizard on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:49PM (#32019944)
Does the state really own the road though?
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by et-al on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:56PM (#32020025)
Who else would pay for the maintenance for said roads?
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by beowulfey on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:51PM (#32019963)
I live in a state with many “no right turn on red” intersections, and I can tell you for sure that people very often ignore those signs and do it anyway.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by corrral on Thursday July 07, 2022 @07:19PM (#32020950)
Strongly agree that you ought to be able to drive most anything you like on roads that you build and maintain on your own property.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by teakettle42 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @08:44PM (#32021627)
The roads we mutually pay for belong to us collectively, too.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by corrral on Friday July 08, 2022 @05:15PM (#32027214)
Yep! That's why our government sets rules for their use.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by rpmisms on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:57PM (#32020043)
> The state’s monopoly on violence should be used judiciously and sparingly to secure our individual rights, not as a catch-all tool for coercing (or outright forcing) people into making the choices you want them to.

May I steal this, please? I know a few people who don't get my political philosophy, and I want to help them understand.

Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by dredmorbius on Saturday July 09, 2022 @12:23AM (#32031647)
The state's monopoly, qua Max Weber, is on the legitimate use of violence. That is, the right and legitimacy of that right, is restricted to the state.

Absent this, one of three conditions exist;

1. There is no monopoly. In which case violence is widespread, and there is no state.

2. There is no legitimacy. In which case violence is capricious. This is your condition of tyranny (unaccountable power).

3. Some non-state power or agent assumes the monopoly on legitimate violence. In which case it becomes, by definition the State.

The state's claim is to legitimacy. A capricious exercise would be an abrogation of legitimacy

Weber, Max (1978). Roth, Guenther; Wittich, Claus (eds.). Economy and Society. Berkeley: U. California P. p. 54.

https://archive.org/details/economysociety00webe/page/54/mod...

There's an excellent explanation of the common misunderstanding in this episode of the Talking Politics podcast: https://play.acast.com/s/history-of-ideas/weberonleadership

The misleading and abbreviated form that's frequently found online seems to have originated with Rothbard, and was further popularised by Nozick.

Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by teakettle42 on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:09PM (#32020196)
> May I steal this, please?

Of course. Glad it was cogent enough to be useful.

Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by rpmisms on Thursday July 07, 2022 @06:10PM (#32020213)
Succinct is probably the best word. You've essentially described the Non-Aggression Principle as it applies to government.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by abenga on Friday July 08, 2022 @04:47AM (#32024517)
And here we are discussing individual pedestrians' rights to safety on the roads, no?
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by Dig1t on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:45PM (#32019901)
This is very well stated and honestly completely sums up most of the political divide between left and right.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by CorrectHorseBat on Thursday July 07, 2022 @05:59PM (#32020077)
If by individuals you mean white men, that is.
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by al_mandi on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:23PM (#32021901)
Don't newer vehicles with pedestrian detection address the issue?
Re:9,000-pound electric Hummer shows we can’t ignore efficie... by Drunk_Engineer on Thursday July 07, 2022 @09:37PM (#32022011)