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Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by bayindirh on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:05PM (#31936195)
They're beaming almost 100mbps from the space to surface of the earth, to us, mere consumers, and they're the worst because they're slower than some wired solutions?

I'm seriously worried about the pollution they create for astronomers, but that's seriously absurd.

Do I need to repeat? They're beaming this from space, to your home.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by yellowapple on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:08PM (#31936231)
And not just to your home. I'm very strongly considering ponying up the money for Starlink to be able to work while camped out in the middle of nowhere.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by rootusrootus on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:33PM (#31936595)
I do this. Anywhere I can drag my trailer. I have a favorite location up in the mountains that gets no signal of any kind, but now that I have Starlink I can get perfect Internet there. So instead of going up for a weekend to relax, I go up for a week at a time, work during the day, and come home on the weekend to top up supplies.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by yellowapple on Thursday June 30, 2022 @03:32PM (#31937404)
Yep, that's exactly the sort of routine I have in mind.

Longer-term, I'm hoping for that favorite location to be a piece of land I actually own, in which case my goal is to setup a semi-permanent "base" with solar, Starlink, and a yurt or somesuch.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by logosmonkey on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:20PM (#31941450)
Same, I got a setup before I went out west this year and I can now camp off grid at places I couldn't the previous years. It's great.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by kenchan on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:27PM (#31936509)
Mine is arriving today and I'm SUPER stoked. Bye AT&T forever!
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by Alupis on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:15PM (#31936324)
The receiver doesn't seem to be easily portable, say on a backpacking trip or something. Perhaps that will change in the future though.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by skykooler on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:38PM (#31936668)
The RV receiver fits in a backpack, though you'll need to carry a fairly heavy battery to power it for a while.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by mikestew on Thursday June 30, 2022 @03:31PM (#31937393)
"fits in a backpack", with the implication that it will consume the internal volume of said backpack. That does not make it a solution for parent's "backpacking trip", unless you wish to sleep on the ground in the clothes you wore. And you ate before your left. The "heavy battery" was just icing on the cake. You know some backpackers saw the handles of their toothbrush to impress other backpackers^W^W^Wsave weight, right? :-)

That's not to say Starlink or a competitor can't get there eventually. I already have pocketable/backpackable device that can shove data up and down a satellite link (Garmin InReach), it's just dog-slow, and that's likely down to the antenna and transmitter power if I were to guess. Someone with more RF smarts than I can probably cook up a foldable antenna, perhaps boost the power a bit, I dunno. But the PoC is there, it just needs iteration.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by dreamcompiler on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:16PM (#31939955)
This is more of a physics problem than an engineering problem.

Garmin InReach uses an omnidirectional antenna on the Iridium network. With an omni antenna your S/N ratio is simply too low to send bits fast. If you made the device powerful enough to roast birds in flight it might work for faster uplink but then it would be dangerous to you too and the FCC would never let you use it anyway. And even this wouldn't improve your downlink speed.

The only way to improve the speed in both directions is to use a directional antenna, which points most of the uplink energy toward the satellite and concentrates the satellite's incoming energy to get the S/N ratio high in both directions. That's exactly what Starlink does.

This is made even more difficult because we're talking about LEO satellites and LEO satellites move. So the antenna has to track the satellite. Again this is what Starlink is doing.

(You can also use GEO satellites which don't move, but then latency becomes terrible. That's how the older satellite internet systems work.)

It's certainly possible to build a portable, directional, tracking LEO satellite antenna. That's exactly what the Starlink RV solution is. But it's never going to be as small as your Garmin unit.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by yellowapple on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:15PM (#31936331)
True, but I've got a pickup :)
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by xbar on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:23PM (#31936454)
I'm expecting an official cybertruck-bed-based antenna dish.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by Already__Taken on Thursday June 30, 2022 @05:00PM (#31938550)
I'm serious that with rent costs increasing, starlink live roaming might see a real boost in live-aboard sailors
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by jonah on Thursday June 30, 2022 @05:32PM (#31938900)
Until they have their inter-satellite links working, you and the downlink station have to both be visible to the same satellite.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by BurningFrog on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:23PM (#31936451)
Friend of mine does that and works from ultra-remote southwesterns deserts when so inclined.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by gamblor956 on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:05PM (#31939840)
Starlink chose the 100mbps threshold over trying to satisfy the lower speed threshold because the higher threshold makes their business plan viable (it lets them get $$$ government funding for providing high-speed rural connectivity).

They don't get kudos for failing to meet the standard they're required to meet as a condition of the government program they need to make their business work.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by fshr on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:55PM (#31941258)
> The full Starlink satellite system doesn't have 4,408 sats. That's just the Gen 1 constellation. They have committed to completing the Gen 2 constellation, with an additional 7,518 sats, which each provide many times more bandwidth than the Gen 1 sats, by 2027, well in time for the RDOF.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by spywaregorilla on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:20PM (#31940541)
They built and shipped something really cool and useful. That seems like it deserves some kudos.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by UmbertoNoEco on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:09PM (#31936238)
It's not only the pollution. The world is "unwillingly" giving up space spots to a company that can use those satellites as technological weapons. What happens when a Chinese/India/Russia(Insert any non-Anglo "bad" country) decides to emulate them , I would happily bet my left kidney the _commentariat_ here would not be so happy.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by AtlasBarfed on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:12PM (#31936284)
Would they provide a usable broadband alternative to the broomstick-up-butt treatment I get from the telcos?

Hell yes I'd take them. Oh they'd steal my data? Well, so does everyone on this site and the telco I have now.

Consider this, Mr Geopolitical power. Do you want the US with this weapon, or sit on our ass and let China deploy one now that SpaceX has shown how powerful it is?

This is the single greatest Western soft power weapon since the iPhone. And you're begrudging it? Come on.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by UmbertoNoEco on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:19PM (#31936378)
I am latin-American Mr "I think Anglo is the world default", in our region the US has been a much more pernicious force in history than China,by several orders of magnitude. I understand we are just simple apes that love to think tribally (the logical part of our brain is shut off) but I would expect one is aware enough to understand there are other "tribes", specially when worldwide one's group does not reach double digits as % of population.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by weaponizedlinux on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:34PM (#31936609)
Playing the "Holier-than-thou and I think Americans are assholes" card combo by itself is not countering their point.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:57PM (#31936942)
It is correct that Starlink is not motivated to act for your benefit, any more than for this individual. Your interlocutor has long experience with such things. So do we, really; are Starlink's incentives aligned any different from AT&T's?

A few years back, AT&T took a half $billion from US taxpayers to build out fiber to rural neighborhoods. One comes to within 1/10 mi of my house. But they were not obliged to light any of it. They did not. That fiber sits dark, more than a decade on.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:48PM (#31936801)
This is not the US. This is a privately held corporation answerable to nobody. Whose benefit do you imagine they will exercise their power on behalf of? Yours? US voters'?
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by filoleg on Thursday June 30, 2022 @03:05PM (#31937043)
> This is not the US. This is a privately held corporation

Just like all other ISPs. As well as tech companies.

What's your point? That Starlink is bad because it isn't a government-owned entity? Or are you opposed to the idea that a non-government entity can provide a strategic advantage/soft power to the US government?

Asking because neither of those two points seem to be able to withstand much scrutiny.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @03:16PM (#31937209)
My point is simply that anyone expecting Starlink will treat you better than AT&T does, and to act on behalf of the US, is very unfamiliar with both history and Elon Musk.

A hell of a lot of Tesla customers paid $thousands for self-driving, since, what, 2016? Tesla just laid off its whole self-driving department. What are the odds they will now issue refunds? Care to bet?

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by panick21_ on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:19PM (#31939975)
> My point is simply that anyone expecting Starlink will treat you better than AT&T does

The situations are totally different. AT&T made money from LOCAL infrastructure that they had a natural and enforced monopoly on.

Starlink infrastructure is inherently global, their main goal is with minimal effort and cost to connect as my people as possible to distribute the global fixed cost. SpaceX has little intensive to involve itself as deeply in local politics. On a global scale some politics will go in their direction, others away, spending lots of money in each government is not really a very practical strategy.

The US government can force companies to do things sure, and if you have extreme security consideration that goes beyond having a VPN go threw Starlink then Starlink is not for you.

Starlink will not have a monopoly on anything, they have an essentially global outlook and they are trying to offer a uniform standard service from Stockholm to Santiago. So I do actually think its a fair assumption that costumer experience has a chance to be better.

> Tesla just laid off its whole self-driving department

You realize that is totally wrong right?

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:05PM (#31940832)
If you really think AT&T's profits are from their landline dial tone service, I don't know what to say.

> Starlink will not have a monopoly on anything

Numerous people have posted right here, contradicting you. Maybe read them?

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by panick21_ on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:14PM (#31950458)
> Numerous people have posted right here, contradicting you. Maybe read them?

They are wrong. Its simply factually wrong. Starlink will coexist with many global LEO constellations, many are already in planning.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Friday July 01, 2022 @05:02PM (#31952869)
Those other constellations do not, in fact, exist. Until they do, for most rural subscribers Starlink is the only game in town: a de facto monopoly even by strict legal definition, whether or not so governed administratively yet.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by niij on Thursday June 30, 2022 @09:46PM (#31941179)
> Tesla just laid off its whole self-driving department.

I had to check since I hadn't heard of this. All the sources I checked were about 200 low-level employees who were mostly doing manual annotation of images to help improve the algorithm. Not developers themselves. Definitely nothing about laying off "the whole self-driving department".

From https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/28/tesla-layoffs-autopilot-wo... :

"Most of the workers were in moderately low-skilled, low-wage jobs, such as Autopilot data labeling, which involves determining if Tesla’s algorithm identified an object well or poorly, according to one source."

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:37PM (#31941581)
"Most of" is carrying a mighty heavy load, there.

They are closing the entire San Mateo unit. If I were among the "self-driving" staff remaining, I would be updating my résumé.

Curiously, all those dumped were "terminated for underperforming", which will make finding work elsewhere hard, unless other companies see it as a cynical ploy to dodge regulations on normal layoffs.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by niij on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:43PM (#31941630)
I don't understand the significance of the San Mateo city in this context. I don't work in this industry. Were there higher level programmers included as well, instead of work akin to Amazon Mechanical Turk?

Do you have a source for the underperforming thing? That'd be next level incompetence for them to lay off 200 people for that reason all at once. (not saying it's impossible obviously!)

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:59PM (#31942177)
Same article you linked (tx), at the end. So, you know as much as I do. Before, I only knew the headline: closed office, flushed staff.

Agree, abusing labor law like that would be pretty scummy. Is it "incompetent" if it costs less? Depends on who is getting in trouble.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by filoleg on Thursday June 30, 2022 @05:16PM (#31938713)
> A hell of a lot of Tesla customers paid $thousands for self-driving, since, what, 2016? Tesla just laid off its whole self-driving department. What are the odds they will now issue refunds? Care to bet?

Refunds for what? Every feature I bought the car with is still there. Even got the FSD beta access last month after being on the waitlist for a while. Updates still keep getting pushed, fixes and adjustments still get deployed on a regular basis. The self-driving program isn't ending, the development is still ongoing and alive, so I am not sure why I should be expecting a refund for that.

Also, get your news right. The people they recently laid off were mostly working on labeling data, they were not actual self-driving engineers. Labeling data is a pretty common and manual type of a task. I am actually surprised they've been doing it in-house for so long, as opposed to contracting it out. Not trying to justify that layoff, but claiming that it indicates the end of their self-driving program is ridiculous at best (and disingenuous at worst).

> anyone expecting Starlink will treat you better than AT&T does, and to act on behalf of the US, is very unfamiliar with both history and Elon Musk

You can make that statement about literally any company, and it is always a fool's errand to guess instead of evaluating that specific thing in question. You can say the same about Google, but I've been a happy Google Fiber/Webpass customer for the past few years. I can say nothing but good things about it, after many years of terrible experience with Comcast/Xfinity, and a few much better (but still worse than Google Fiber/Webpass) years with WaveG (WA area fiber provider).

In this specific case with Starlink, you don't need to guess either. If you live in an area where they provide service, you can sign up and compare it to any currently existing internet solutions for areas with no high-speed internet (rural and far-from-major-cities areas), which is the primary use case that Starlink was designed for.

Back to the original point about "private tech company as a soft power for the US government is a ridiculous idea." In the present day, we got Ukrainian Vice PM tweeting[0] his expression of gratitude towards the US government and Starlink for providing connectivity during their current crisis. What is this if not a proof of that soft power US can exhibit through private tech companies?

0. https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/15327439910658170...

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Thursday June 30, 2022 @08:55PM (#31940761)
Either you paid extra for FSD, or you didn't. If you didn't, you won't get it. Everyone who did still doesn't have it, despite public statements ("next year, for sure") every year since 2016.

A mass layoff sends a message. Everyone left, there, certainly got it, and are updating their CVs. (I wonder what they will say they have been up to.)

You do get self-crashing, anyway: You can watch those frame by frame on YT.

And, yes, the same is true of any big corporation. But many people have announced in public that they do expect different, and need the correction. Comcast, the "Most Hated Corporation in America", is a curious choice to have substituted in for AT&T.

Anyone who imagines that Starlink did not get back way more than full value for that Ukr gesture knows nothing of PR.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by concordDance on Thursday June 30, 2022 @05:29PM (#31938874)
US corporations are significantly controlled by US laws. These laws can do things like stopping them serving enemy countries. (The recent Russia sanctions are an example)

That is power.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by ncmncm on Saturday July 02, 2022 @02:26PM (#31961185)
I think I see your point, here: that, being a US company, the US can give it directions regardless of what the company would have chosen to do; and even in places the company is not compelled by law, it may be in their interest to stay on good terms with the feds where for a company based elsewhere it might not.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by bpodgursky on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:12PM (#31936282)
If Russia wants to use satellites as technological weapons, I don't think they're going to ask the FCC for permission.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by panick21_ on Thursday June 30, 2022 @07:04PM (#31939821)
> space spots

What does that even mean? You can't see them unless you have highly speziallised equipment.

And in terms of physical spots, space is absurdly huge, space is not really a limited resource.

Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by wmf on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:32AM (#31942391)
It seems like they're keeping a ~10 km buffer zone around each satellite which does add up. Between Starlink, OneWeb, and Kuiper a bunch of shells have already been taken.
Re:What do Starlink’s latest Ookla results mean for its RDOF... by panick21_ on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:16PM (#31950493)
Those are current technological limitation the same way Montana farmers in the West didn't have barbed wire.

Tracking and control technology is constantly improving. Just like as with airplane safety humanity will improve with increase use.