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Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by chmod600 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @06:06PM (#31913698)
It really puzzles me why existing gun laws that everyone agrees on aren't enforced.

How are there so many repeat offenders that are violent with guns?

It seems to be some kind of trend to make guns a white-collar crime or something. Like, if you don't file the right paperwork before loaning someone a pistol at the range, then it's a crime; but if you mug someone its the gun's fault.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by corey_moncure on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @09:12PM (#31915290)
Because they will be found unconstitutional if challenged; the finesse is in getting the laws to stay on the books to have what effect they can, and to appease the voters who support those laws, while avoiding enforcement situations that would result in a direct challenge. It's the cat and mouse game that goes on between the branches of government.

Also see why some gun laws are written in an extremely obfuscated and convoluted manner, for example the law that became a point of contention in State v. Rittenhouse.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by dfxm12 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:46PM (#31915895)
Because they will be found unconstitutional if challenged

Abramski v. United States suggests that SCOTUS recognizes that straw purchases are illegal. Although, I guess the current SCOTUS isn't above ignoring precedent that is popular with the people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by Akronymus on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @03:35AM (#31917449)
> Although, I guess the current SCOTUS isn't above ignoring precedent that is popular with the people.

I assume you are referring to roe v wade, which is a case of where the precedent was wrong ín the first place (Abortion was pretty much banned everywhere in common law, so there was no precedent of it being an unenumerated right, for example) and was kept as a precedent because it was a precedent (ignoring the lack of underlying constitutionality)

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by goatkey on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @11:35AM (#31921640)
There was also a ruling last week explicitly overturning certain gun regulation laws. See: New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen [0], which overturns a law that has stood since 1911 in New York State. Based on Gallup data [1], 52% of Americans want stricter gun laws, and only 11% want less strict gun laws. The decision makes it much harder to impose additional restrictions, and will require some states to lessen restrictions. 0: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-843_7j80.pdf 1: https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by tekknik on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:06AM (#31933353)
You’re worried about a law used by responsible gun owners. Criminals won’t apply for a CCW and will just carry anyway. How does the supreme court ruling out more guns into criminals hands to justify your concern?
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by sangnoir on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @04:20AM (#31917656)
> which is a case of where the precedent was wrong

Isn't this always the court's opinion when it overturns precedent?

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by Akronymus on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @04:30AM (#31917716)
Well, kinda. Usually it is the case that the underlying legal framework changed. For example, a new amendment or new federal law. In this case, no such thing has happened.
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by quxbar on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:24PM (#31916120)
Yeah, the court has proven precedent is entirely a matter of simple majority.
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by staticautomatic on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @12:21AM (#31916468)
Why? Commerce clause?
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by robonerd on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @07:12PM (#31914317)
> It really puzzles me why existing gun laws that everyone agrees on aren't enforced.

Ask people if they want gun laws enforced, and they say yes. Ask people if they like it when prosecutors charge a guy with 30 crimes for committing one act of armed robbery, and many start singing a different tune.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by parineum on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @07:27PM (#31914430)
This conversation started from straw purchases though. I think what people get annoyed with is that, when someone is charged with a crime, the most serious crime involved often _requires_ other crimes to be committed in process so, by charging for necessary precursors to crime, you're effectively just increasing the penalty for the main crime.

In this case though, straw purchases _are_ the main crime and there is a real lack of enforcement for that particular crime.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by thaumasiotes on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @09:15PM (#31915308)
> I think what people get annoyed with is that, when someone is charged with a crime, the most serious crime involved often _requires_ other crimes to be committed in process so, by charging for necessary precursors to crime, you're effectively just increasing the penalty for the main crime.

Such a subcrime would be a "lesser included offense"; you can charge for both offenses, but you can't get a conviction on both of them at once.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by torstenvl on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:40PM (#31915851)
That's not quite correct. A lesser included offense (LIO) must have a strict subset of elements of the greater offense and/or a less culpable mens rea. For example, possession of cocaine is an LIO of possession of cocaine with intent to distribute; homicide by reckless and wanton disregard of human life (felony murder/third degree murder) is an LIO of homicide by malice aforethought (premeditated murder/capital murder/first degree murder). In other words, LIOs are those offenses which are logically necessary to commit the larger offense. Charging both an offense and its LIOs is what, in our jurisdiction, we call multiplicity.

What this discussion touches on is not multiplicity but unreasonable multiplication of charges (at least in my jurisdiction we call it that). The test here is not the logical question of whether one necessitates the other by definition; it's the factual question of whether the offenses are part of substantially the same transaction. For example, a prosecutor might charge perjury, fraud, and larceny, wrt someone swearing to some materially false fact and fraudulently obtaining someone else's property with intent to permanently deprive them of it. These three offenses are not subsets of one another, but are closely related; it isn't logically necessary to commit perjury to commit fraud, in the abstract, but in a particular case that might be the mechanism by which one commits fraud. In my jurisdiction, UMC charges can stay on the charge sheet (perhaps the jury finds guilt on one but not all?) but, if convicted of more than one, they are merged for sentencing.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by fsckboy on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:42PM (#31915863)
if a straw purchased gun is not used in a crime, how would it come to anybody's attention?

if a straw purchased gun is used in a crime, I'd be surprised if it didn't get investigated.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by dfxm12 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:08PM (#31916018)
if a straw purchased gun is not used in a crime, how would it come to anybody's attention?

Well, let's say the original purchaser happens to be suspected of a crime (completely unrelated to a straw purchase, let's say bank robbery) and during a search of that purchaser's house, federal agents find a receipt for a check with "Glock 19" written on the memo line, it'll get their attention [0]. Very likely scenario :)

Other than that, good old fashioned surveillance plus a getting a confession [1]. I've also heard ads on the radio for a tipline to tell cops about straw purchases. No idea how well that works, though.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States#Fact...

1 - https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/philadelphia-woman-conv...

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by robonerd on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @04:13PM (#31925157)
People get annoyed when gun laws are less likely to be enforced against somebody who committed numerous other crimes, than against somebody who didn't commit any other crimes.
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by jedmeyers on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @07:39PM (#31914515)
> Ask people if they like it when prosecutors charge a guy with 30 crimes for committing one act of armed robbery

This is usually resolved by not adding the jail times for the crimes, but by doing MAX(a, b, ...) on them. Prosecutors will suddenly only care about the most important ones.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by more_corn on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @12:32AM (#31916536)
Yeah but I see no problem with prospecting the guy who bought it for him. If you illegally buy a felon a gun and it’s used in a crime maybe that should be prosecuted.
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by duped on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @09:47PM (#31915517)
Because Republicans refuse to fund or empower any law enforcement agency to enforce the law or study how well they're enforcing it and the impacts of it, at least at the federal level.

The gun problem is synonymous with the Republican problem.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by braincat31415 on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @01:11PM (#31922960)
I don't see it this way. You just have to see what criminals get away with in Chicago. There is almost no prosecution of gun crimes. People get laughable sentences or none at all.
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by throwaway894345 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:57PM (#31915949)
I'm an independent, I've only ever voted for Democratic candidates, etc.

Because blaming Republicans is just a canned argument at this point, can you unpack the mechanism a bit more? Are Democrats trying really hard to fund ATF, FBI, etc and Republicans are blocking it? Can you substantiate this claim with examples? I don't necessarily doubt it, but without substance this just reads like vapid flamebait.

Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by giantg2 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:22PM (#31916110)
All they'd have to do is fund the prosecutors since they currently only prosecute like 3% of the known gun crimes federally. Semi-sarcastically, defunding the ATF might actually help (see Ruby Ridge, Waco, walking guns at the border, full autos stolen from ATF agents, etc). If you know anyone who has worked with federal LE, ATF and DEA will typically show up at the top of their "cowboy" list.
Re:Gun owners’ private information leaked by California Atto... by chmod600 on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @04:31AM (#31917719)
How do Republicans take the blame for Chicago or other revolving-door blue jurisdictions?