News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by nharada on Monday June 27, 2022 @02:09PM (#31898357)
The logbook is awesome: https://github.com/facebookresearch/metaseq/blob/main/projec...

This is the true secret sauce -- all the tricks on how to get these things to train properly that aren't really published.

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by dang on Monday June 27, 2022 @03:07PM (#31899256)
Related:

100 Pages of raw notes released with the language model OPT-175 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31260665 - May 2022 (26 comments)

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by axg11 on Monday June 27, 2022 @04:51PM (#31900621)
It really is great that Meta released the notes/logbook. Credit where credit is due. Very few other academic or industry labs release materials like this, especially when the reality is so messy.

Some interesting takeaways:

- Meta aren't using any software for scientific logbooks, just prepending a document

- So many hardware/cluster issues.

- Hot-swapping algorithms is common and likely underreported (in this case activation functions and optimization method)

- A well resourced team didn't solve enough issues to fully utilize compute resources until >50% of the total time into the project

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by sanxiyn on Monday June 27, 2022 @07:44PM (#31902397)
If you are interested in hot-swapping, I highly recommend OpenAI Five paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.06680. It includes 10 months log of how they adapted the model to releases of Dota 2 version 7.19, 7.20, and 7.21.

I agree hot-swapping is underreported, but there are some good existing reports. In fact, OpenAI Five paper today is probably more valuable for its details on hot-swapping than its details on main model which used LSTM and not transformer.

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by hoseja on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @01:49AM (#31904530)
Weird they felt the need to update the version since they used a very limited subset of Dota anyway.
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by domenicrosati on Monday June 27, 2022 @05:02PM (#31900762)
I wonder what software would be good for a logbook like this... I just use google docs for these kinds of things. Sure wandb and jupyter notebooks are good but they are not so good for notes and ideas and documentation
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by Gigachad on Monday June 27, 2022 @07:57PM (#31902476)
Sometimes the generic solution is just the best. No one requires special training on Google Docs and it just comes with handy features like version control and live updates.
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by EricLeer on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @02:33AM (#31904777)
Personally I use notion for this. Not dedicated software, but the extra options in formatting/structuring and linking can make a document like this a lot more readible.
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @01:58AM (#31904568)
We tried jupyter notebooks for this kind of thing once, and after the equivalent of ~50 pages it becomes unusably slow in my experience.
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by asadlionpk on Monday June 27, 2022 @07:24PM (#31902244)
LogSeq? I use it for this kinda work...
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by sp527 on Monday June 27, 2022 @02:33PM (#31898720)
This really does read like 'DevOps: Nightmare Edition'

> CSP fat fingered and deleted our entire cluster when trying to replenish our buffer nodes

Yikes

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by zubspace on Monday June 27, 2022 @02:46PM (#31898909)
I have no knowledge of such things, but it seems they run Cuda jobs on about 150 nodes?

But why do they have so many problems to keep this cluster stable? Network failures? Bad GPU's? Bad drivers? Bad software?

Running fixmycloud and going after all those cryptic errors every day seems like a nightmare to me...

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @03:32AM (#31905141)
Seems kind of par for the course for an HPC cluster, no?

It makes sense to think of these things like Formula 1 cars, they are trying to eke out the absolute maximum performance, and reliability suffers because of that.

"Ordinary" cloud is more like a Toyota where you optimize for fuel economy and low maintenance.

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by amelius on Monday June 27, 2022 @03:18PM (#31899418)
This all makes me wonder: how reproducible is the final output model?
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by screye on Monday June 27, 2022 @04:48PM (#31900580)
Not this one, but Google's PaLM (which is 4x OPT3) trains semi-deterministically.

These kinds of large transformers can be relatively reproduceable in results and benchmarks. However, making them converge to the exact same parameter set might not be a reasonable expectation.

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by ur-whale on Monday June 27, 2022 @10:51PM (#31903558)
> how reproducible is the final output model?

Not much, but it also depends on what you mean by "reproducible".

Do you expect a similar internal representation (weights) or a similar behavior?

Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by dekhn on Monday June 27, 2022 @04:25PM (#31900293)
the details of that specific model they ended up with? Irreproducible, unless the system was carefully designed and every detail required to do a fully reproducible computation was recorded and replayed. But they could easily produce a bunch of models that all sort of end up in roughly the same place and perform the same, ideally reducing the number of things they needed to change ad-hoc during the training.
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by gxqoz on Monday June 27, 2022 @04:16PM (#31900183)
Any particular highlights from this?
Re:Meta is inviting researchers to pick apart the flaws in i... by fny on Monday June 27, 2022 @06:59PM (#31902028)
Honestly, no.