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Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by AceJohnny2 on Thursday June 16, 2022 @04:39PM (#31770714)
> they didn’t cover their tracks very well anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean they actually told him where they were from (geographically, if not organizationally), so clearly they didn't consider it something that needed to be secret.

Which is interesting, because it gives us insight into their way of thinking [1]. They clearly don't consider themselves to be in any way toxic like the author thinks they are.

Cults are interesting: they provide a sense of belonging and accomplishment to their members, in exchange for something (time, money/tithe, ...). In that respect, they're just another point on the spectrum of human social groups. Including some corporations. Frankly, I (and clearly other commenters here) have difficulty finding a clear ontological distinction between such a cult and, well, the Google corporation itself.

[1] I'm already Othering them, which I'm sure they'd be surprised about

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by wardedVibe on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:05PM (#31771586)
Jesus Christ dude, they're led by a man who routinely sexually assaults people. Being permissive about that is pretty damning. Kooky beliefs are one thing, but cults combine those with oppressive social structures. It's not that hard unless you're stuck in the middle of one with all it's filtering.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by youessayyyaway on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:53PM (#31772013)
The similarities keep piling up! Google was co-founded by Sergey Brin, who insisted it was okay to screw his employees in the company massage room because "they're my employees".

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/valley-of-genius-exc...

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by runnerup on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:10PM (#31772131)
Thank you for this. I’ve lost (fatally) a dear friend to a polyamorous relationship between herself and her direct manager + manager’s wife at Google.

I’m not trying to claim it’s endemic at Google, I truly have no idea. But mini cults can happen inside corporations.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by whimsicalism on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @10:10PM (#31844400)
Fatally?
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by runnerup on Wednesday June 22, 2022 @11:32PM (#31844904)
Yes. I can’t go into more detail without committing libel. But Mountain View police ruled it a “death by natural causes” without bothering to look at GPS history of the last people she was with (staying with late at night) just moments before. It was a very unusual way to die by natural cause, and she chose a very curious mode of transportation given other modes of hers that she had available to her where she was.

The point wasn’t so much the death as it was that generally sexual relations between a boss and a direct report shouldn’t usually be any type of acceptable in a healthy workplace.

No judgement on Poly/ ENM / whatever.

The death merely was my motivation for being passionate about this recurring theme I keep hearing from reports within Google of entanglements between direct reports and management (and sometimes others, like the spouses of management or their other mistresses).

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by pavlov on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:29PM (#31771785)
So, like Tesla and SpaceX.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by thedailymail on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:40PM (#31771896)
Actually interested - are there multiple allegations against EM other than the recently reported horse-for-handjob offer?
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by TheOtherHobbes on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:53PM (#31772015)
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by permo-w on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:42PM (#31771909)
How different is a cult from a corporation, really?
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by tomrod on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:11PM (#31772136)
Having recovered from a high demand religion (which can be considered a modern cult depending on the definition), cults are very different from corporations.

I feel like the best definition of a cult is any group that won't let you dissociate with your dignity intact. Most corporations are fine with that. Some aren't. So this suggests substantial differences.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by permo-w on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:29PM (#31772252)
I don't see that as a good definition of a cult
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by tomrod on Thursday June 16, 2022 @08:39PM (#31772736)
To be fair, it's a lived experience that I have found among other cult and high demand religion recoverers.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by permo-w on Friday June 17, 2022 @11:21AM (#31779539)
I believe that it's a common feature amongst a large portion of cults, but my scepticism arises at the use of it as a broad definition of what is or isn't one.

The same way you wouldn't say having a charismatic leader is the definition of what a cult is. It's certainly an aspect of most cults, but not the definition, nor unique to cults

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by tomrod on Friday June 17, 2022 @02:13PM (#31782121)
That's okay. People have to draw lines to define things. I found the definition I provided above to be sufficient to my experience.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by guelo on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:58PM (#31772057)
Sexually assaulting people just like Catholic priests or Southern Baptists ministers.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by csisnett on Thursday June 16, 2022 @08:02PM (#31772474)
You should look at sexual abuse at public schools if you're interested in the topic
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by swatcoder on Thursday June 16, 2022 @04:54PM (#31770857)
The satanic and brainwashing/deprogramming scares of the 80’s changed the way a lot of people use the word, but for the preceding several millennia cult simply suggested:

A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members.

There are millions of these around us, and we’re all probably members of several. It seems to be pretty normal throughout history. We just don’t acknowledge it as such because the word was only fairly recently stigmatized.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by Viliam1234 on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:18PM (#31771714)
The dangerous organizations were called "destructive cults" (which suggested the existence of non-destructive ones) in the 80's, but people gradually stopped using the adjective, generalizing it too far.

> A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members.

Yeah, but the exact type of "secrets and opportunities" matters. Sometimes (as mentioned in the article) the secret opportunity is a surprise nonconsensual sex with the group leader.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by MonkeyClub on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:26PM (#31771187)
> A membership community with secrets and opportunities reserved for members.

That can also be a guild.

"Cult" is a term from the study of religion (a particular field's jargon, if you will), and usually conveys intense devotion, a ritual or sacrificial dimension that goes beyond a master craftsman's level of devotion to a craft.

Also, a guild can't entertain fanciful ideas about their craft for too long, if the ideas don't work in practice.

The distinction is kind of like using Cobol to build a good solid system (guild), versus dropping some Lisp to reach enlightenment (cult), or using C to build a solid system (cult).

In which case, I'm voting cult all the way.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by thaumasiotes on Thursday June 16, 2022 @09:37PM (#31773118)
> "Cult" is a term from the study of religion (a particular field's jargon, if you will), and usually conveys intense devotion, a ritual or sacrificial dimension that goes beyond a master craftsman's level of devotion to a craft.

That might be the modern colloquial use, but I don't think it has much to do with the use of the word "cult" in the study of religion?

As I understand the word, you might talk about the cult associated with a particular temple (meaning just local practices, as opposed to more widespread general practices), or the cult associated with the worship of a particular god (meaning beliefs and practices pertaining to that god and his or her worship in specific, such beliefs might be very widespread or might be highly localized), or you might talk about a mystery cult, which is pretty much by definition a widespread phenomenon distinguished by the fact that it has secret teachings unknown to non-initiates.

But none of those senses convey any special devotion in comparison to ordinary worship; most of them are ordinary worship.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by TheOtherHobbes on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:07PM (#31772112)
It was more like the 70s. High profile stories included mass suicide at the People's Temple led by Jim Jones [1], Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh collecting Rolls Royces and sexual favours from followers, and of course Charles Manson.

[1] Origin of the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid". More than 900 people did, and died.

Point being cults are not just a club with a few secrets.

Cults are dangerous. They abuse people physically, sexually, psychologically, and financially, and the leaders reliably scam and exploit the followers. Not infrequently there are links to unusually horrific events such as mass murder and mass suicide.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by cs137 on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:17PM (#31771703)
These days the preferred (I hate to call it "politically correct") term for what used to be called a "cult" is NRM: new religious movement. Cult is reserved for the minority that are actually deranged, coercive, and dangerous.

Of course, part of the problem is that there are concentric rings, increasingly toxic as one goes higher/closer-in. The outer ring is full of gullible normies who do recruiting and PR, useful idiots who have no idea what's really going on.

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by ineedasername on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:50PM (#31771980)
It's the nature of those secrets though, isn't it. A small professional organization that keeps a secret list of member reviews of different workplaces, managers, etc is not the same as an organization that keeps occult beliefs a secret, or hides sex trafficking.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by dendriti on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:12PM (#31771034)
We call non-religious cults "cliques" now...
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by dcow on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:17PM (#31771086)
Costco: a modern cult.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by jonathankoren on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:33PM (#31771824)
Partake in the Holy Communion of the Perpetual $1.50 Hot Dog Combo.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by dcow on Thursday June 16, 2022 @07:05PM (#31772101)
Ah, the hot dog tithe. To be raised to $2.50 soonTM.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by earleybird on Thursday June 16, 2022 @09:23PM (#31773028)
"Not so" according to RandomMediaOutletTM[0]

[0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phew-costco-absolutely-pos...

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by nonrandomstring on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:14PM (#31771054)
Yes, I think in this context the word "cult" is inappropriate. The word the author was looking for is "clique".
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by happyopossum on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:47PM (#31771396)
Umm, members of cliques don't ritually abuse each other - that's a cult thing.
Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by nonrandomstring on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:16PM (#31771691)
Okay, more nuance: The shit this "Fellowship of Friends" actually does - that's a cult. I guess wanted to say they're a clique of cult members.

The cult is real. The clique is the group within Google (as opposed to there being a cult within Google), I hope that distinction makes sense.

I've seen this before. At the BBC. Everyone closed ranks around Jimmy Savile and an organisation called PIE (paedophile information exchange). You were literally told you couldn't say anything about it. But AFAIK the rotten group was small, but powerful. Many, many more decent people work at the BBC. As I'm sure applies to Google.

Edit:

I say this because the headline "Cult within Google" is misleading. (I bloody hate Google and everything they stand for - but there's an important distinction to be made)

Re:A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit by turdit on Thursday June 16, 2022 @09:01PM (#31772889)
“…they didn't consider it something that needed to be secret… They clearly don't consider themselves to be in any way toxic like the author thinks they are.”

so if a guy says “I’m going to rape you” it means he doesn’t think his behavior is toxic? because he’s open about it? brilliant logic