Depends on where you want to buy. SF? Probably not going to happen. Almost anywhere else? Houses are plenty affordable.

If you grew up somewhere cheap, you probably encountered the attitude that people moving to big cities and expensive states were insane because of the housing prices (and/or taxes and general living expenses). Actual concern over the wellbeing of friends and relatives who did so. For a large segment of people living cheap places, moving to California (as in, the whole state) New York (ditto, except maybe the extremely rural and also not-popular-for-vacations bits), several entire New England states, most big cities unless you're actually living way outside them, et c., was seen as simply impossible. Not in the cards. Cannot be done without ruining your finances. You don't buy somewhere expensive until you retire, and then it's probably in Florida or the Carolinas. On a local lake if you're not rich enough for those.

From that perspective, nothing's changed except that some people living in those expensive places are starting to realize the same thing, and the people experiencing that are a bit higher up the economic ladder than before. Welcome to the lower classes, folks. Don't worry, you've got plenty of company.

I'm not in SF. The last listing I looked at was 800 sq ft, run down, literally "as-is" property: $500k valuation from Zillow (it's listed for less … but not by much). That's about $2500/mo, in mortgage alone.

Decent properties, in suburban areas, at ~$1M.

Ir rural areas, yeah, they're cheaper … and salary would get "adjusted" the moment I try that.

Everyone sells 30 years of their future for a house, so you’re competing with that. On top of that, when prices rise people can leapfrog into more expensive houses, and you’re competing with that. Finally there’s a lot of corporate and private investing money in single family housing. It’s fucked up. But many do predict a decline or even crash soon.

Here's a decent 3-bedroom single family house in suburban Cleveland for $395K.

https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/313q9jxa

That's just one example but you can find thousands of similar listings all over the country. Outside of high-cost coastal areas, housing is still fairly affordable in most of the country.

And, as stated, I would take a "CoL adjustment" by moving there.

That particular property falls pretty squarely in the "exception proves the rule" territory for me; it's a 135 y/o dwelling, so I expect you'll be paying more than the immediate price tag. Like too many listings, it doesn't come w/ a floorplan, and with what photos it gives I'm a bit suss on the 3bd/3ba (piecing together the photos, I think we've converted a second story apt.'s LR into a BR?). It's certainly seen a remodel (although … IDK about the taste of the remodel. But let's say taste is unimportant!) No driveway. The backyard is … well it needs work. You're still batting $2k/mo in Cleveland.

I'd almost hazard a guess that my CoL adjust would be >$500/mo, but I don't get to know these things, being an employee.

There are a few intangibles in my situation that make "move to Cleveland" a "it's not going to happen".

There's a point where one needs to step back and ask oneself, if that's what's affordable on SWE's salary, what's affordable on a baker's salary?

That’s not the suburbs.

I guess it depends how you define "suburbs", but it's outside the core downtown area. If your prefer a house further out in the suburbs or exurbs then there are plenty of options to pick from.

Anyway, the point is that people on HN who have relatively high incomes and job skills, and still complain about lack of affordable housing are mostly just being picky about location. There are options available but it might mean living in a area with shitty weather or not being able to walk to trendy restaurants or among neighbors who don't share your political views. The real housing crisis is hitting people with much lower incomes who are being squeezed out.

I am from Cleveland, that is considered a very nice area these days including the proximity to Steelyard Commons, bars, West Side Market, St Ignatius HS etc

I think that's their "point", in that it's an urban home that's "affordable". I.e., if I only chose a city that wasn't part of one of the megalopolises, I wouldn't have problems.

Jesus where do you live? I moved from San Diego to Raleigh, didn't get a pay adjustment and even that place wouldn't be anywhere near that cost here.

I'm looking at moving to a significantly nicer [edit: than where I am now, that is], coastal region with excellent schools and within occasional-but-not-daily commute distance of two top-tier US cities, including by rail (some of you may be be able to guess the area, at this point), and the housing prices (4-bedroom with some land, even) are surprisingly affordable. Nothing like that, certainly. Houses within daily commute range of one (but not both) of those cities can be had for way under that, too, some miles away from where I'm looking, especially if you'll accept good-but-not-excellent schools.

I guess if you're somewhere insanely expensive and won't go somewhere that's not, then... you're gonna pay a lot for housing. Go figure. "Here's the 97% of the country that's not like that, just throw a dart at a US map and you'll probably hit a place with much cheaper housing"—"No, I won't, because reasons"—"Uh, OK then, kinda sounds like a choice, good luck"

This is what I mean when I say "kicked out." You're forced to move away from everything and everyone you know.

Where

The train comment makes me guess somewhere on the mid-Atlantic east coast: DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia or NYC are all fairly close together, and a train ride from NYC to DC I think is only ~3 hours

100% also, why do you need to buy a house in the first place?

Because my mother taught me that 100% of my value as a person is being a home owner because that's the only thing that matters. Not even a condo will do.

/s but only sort of

Mine literally told me every day you shouldn't have kids unless you own a house.

At least you have a partner. If you're on your own you're absolutely fucked. Not only are you alone but everyone else is out to get you. When we have the crunch in the near future I could see me and my peers torching things.

I don't even worry about this anymore; I look forward to it.

Based on your other posts, I don't think you would sound much different if you had a partner. You clearly have a lot of anger and I encourage you to find someone to talk to. I mainly mean a therapist, but if that isn't an option than a close friend. Those feelings will eat you alive.

Majority of millennials on social media sites like reddit share the same thoughts as that person. To be more specific everyone that isn't making six figures in a career like tech. I have anxiety about the resentment of my peers and I think the riots we've seen in the US non-related to the housing crisis have been bad but likely nothing compared to what's to come. The elephant in the room is that therapy isn't going to cut it and especially when almost all of young adults entering into the timeline of entry-homeownership years realize it's impossible while having flashbacks of how much easier it was for their parents while comparing homes on the market to what they lived in during childhood years. I think the older generation is naive to think that everyone is just going to adapt to apartment living without extreme resentment and torching things down. Even my tech colleague millennials are trying to prepare for what their peers are likely to do.

House prices more than doubled since 1965, yet incomes barely increased.

https://wtfhappenedin1971home.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/un...

I wonder when dual-income households became the standard.