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Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by charcircuit on Monday May 23, 2022 @07:52PM (#31486301)
I'm sure you can find 19 people who want to be paid for playing video games. There are many places where QA isn't paid. It's an honor to help out the development of games and see things early.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by A4ET8a8uTh0 on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:12PM (#31486467)
Eh. I will admit that this comment struck a chord a little.

It is a little upsetting, but I can see OP's perspective given that some people actually pay for early alpha access ( I am still annoyed at myself for purchasing BG3 demo that will come.. who knows when ).

This weird disregard for someone else's time is oddly widespread.

It is not an honor. It is a job. If you want it to be done well, one should be compensated for it.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by chaostheory on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:41PM (#31486668)
Despite the poor tone, he has a point. The most difficult part of manual game testing is the sheer boredom of extremely repetitive work. Given the game industry’s never ending allure, it’s much easier to replace every worker in it vs other industries. It’s probably the same reason why the pay for similar positions is historically lower than other industries.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by 8note on Monday May 23, 2022 @11:46PM (#31487754)
Sounds like you should start a mechanical Turk equivalent for video game testing?
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by charcircuit on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @03:22AM (#31489046)
Sites like that already exist.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:02PM (#31486386)
You aren't paid to play videogames. You are paid to test videogames.

It's asinine to think they are just playing the games - QA has complex skills necessary to succeed, from technical writing to careful test planning to cross organizational planning. QA is some of the least rewarding and most difficult work in a games studio.

It's like asking why camera operators in film sets "get paid to watch movies". We've decided we like games, so we better pay people for the labor in making them.

Fuck off with this "it's an honor" bullshit. It's work. It deserves good working conditions.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by dang on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @01:01PM (#31494661)
You broke the site guidelines with this. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Note this one:

"When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. 'That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3' can be shortened to '1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by seattle_spring on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:18PM (#31486503)
Least rewarding? Sure. Most difficult? I'm not so sure about that one.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:07PM (#31486852)
What's more difficult than a job that's absolutely soul draining and long hours for next to no pay?

It's difficult to become a software engineer, but the job is relatively easy. It's not hard to become QA, or a fruit picker, or meat packer, but those jobs are fucking hard.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by Manuel_D on Monday May 23, 2022 @11:16PM (#31487620)
> What's more difficult than a job that's absolutely soul draining and long hours for next to no pay?

An equally soul draining job that requires you to service customers. And equally draining job that puts in physical danger. And equally draining job that takes out on long distance travel, like crewing a vessel.

I really doubt that a company is going to struggle to find people to load up a build of the game and try to clip through walls all day.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by kupopuffs on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:47PM (#31487129)
I think it's time to take a step back and realize that even living in a first world country and working a tech job is, honestly, not a bad deal.
[dead]
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by dang on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @01:02PM (#31494679)
You broke the site guidelines with this. Please stick to the rules at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, regardless of how bad or wrong another comment is or you feel it is.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:11PM (#31486873)
Hahahahaha. Having worked in the industry for years, developing games is way easier than QAing them. It just requires a lot more initial training and skill development.

I was an engineer, and I don't think I ever saw anyone work harder for less reward than QA.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by ProfXponent on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:26PM (#31486986)
What a stupid and immature perspective.

Modern QA IS engineering.

I would pay money to see you voice this kind of opinion in your workplace where you cannot hide behind the veil of anonymity.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by JaimeThompson on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:43PM (#31486687)
Are not all people worthy of being treated with respect?
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by seneca on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:54PM (#31486753)
"All people being treated with respect" and claiming a secondary role is the most difficult are no where near the same thing, and the emotionally manipulative equivocation is lazy and puerile.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:19PM (#31486922)
I was an engineer in a games studio for years. QA did not have an easier job than I did. None of my engineer peers would do QA work. Wonder why that was?

Maybe because the life of a QA person was difficult? Long hours, contact labor, no benefits, low pay, repetitive work, limited opportunities for creative output, getting fired easily, getting blamed for buggy releases, putting up with prima Donna devs, working late into the night, being treated like garbage from the rest of the studio, etc, etc.

Like, I had more training and a specific set of in demand skills, but my job paid me will and gave me benefits and creative output.

I'd also find construction work, janitorial work, slaughterhouse work, fruit picking work, etc all much more difficult than being an engineer.

Don't confuse "difficult training" with "difficult job". It was hard to climb our ivory tower, absolutely, but we've got it easy after that.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by seneca on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:45PM (#31487111)
I think the disagreement here is around different uses of the word "difficult". Engineering is a job that demands more skill. It is difficult in that fewer people are capable of doing it.

QA, and to a much greater extend the other jobs you listed, are difficult because they are unpleasant to do. That is, because people are unwilling to do them. (QA still has skill demands that limit the people who are able to do it, just much less so. I dont mean to equate it with the other jobs you listed that are largely just physically demanding and otherwise limited by tolerance for misery).

Both are accurate uses of the word, but are very different. I agree with you that QA is more difficult.im the latter sense.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by JaimeThompson on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:08AM (#31490963)
>the emotionally manipulative equivocation is lazy and puerile.

This is a sincere question but do you apply that standard to your interactions with others?

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by my69thaccount on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:55PM (#31486759)
> So YOU fuck off with this commie bullshit that all employees are equal

Who hurt you?

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by charcircuit on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:15PM (#31486486)
>It's asinine to think they are just playing the game

There are bad parts of every job. The fun part of SWE is coding, but that doesn't mean I don't have to write design docs, coordinat between different teams, etc.

>It deserves good working conditions.

I agree, but that doesn't mean you should make a union to do that.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by sjtindell on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:43PM (#31486682)
I sit upon a silk cushion, my servants fanning me as I pluck a grape from the bowl. “The plebs don’t understand how hard I work too”, I complain to no one in particular. “Don’t they realize a union will only hurt them? If they’d just brought me their concerns, I’m sure I would have changed those policies.” My guards chuckle as they spear a nearby peasant and toss him from the ramparts.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by Manuel_D on Monday May 23, 2022 @11:27PM (#31487673)
Is this seriously supposed to be anything but hyperbole? It's not a question of how hard a given job is, but how much demand there is for a given job. If someone wants this job and wants it so much that they're willing to do it for less, I'm not saying no. Not unless there's some special skill that these existing QA people have that the rest of the labor pool lacks.

If someone else is capable of doing my job for half the pay, then hats off to them, and they deserve it.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @12:00AM (#31487837)
That's certainly one theory on how to price labor, but it's not the only one (and not even the only one in our capitalist economy.) Worker coops, for instance, have a totally different theory of labor value.

So no, it's not hyperbole to suggest the poster is undervaluing their peers.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by Manuel_D on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @01:31AM (#31488347)
Not just "undervaluing their peers" but comparing them to peasants murdered and put on pikes?
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by krageon on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @03:33AM (#31489122)
Honestly the tone of the post and the satirical post matched each other so precisely I think it serves as a useful counterpoint to what was posted. The continuity in tone with a completely different context sheds a new light on how problematic the content of the original post was. This is essentially what satire is for.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by ProfXponent on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:33PM (#31487022)
This made my morning, thank you.

Personally I cannot wait for these “engineers” to be treated like normal technicians.

The odd sense of superiority that people like OP seem to have is nauseating.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:44PM (#31487106)
FWIW, I am an engineer and I agree with you.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by ProfXponent on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:52PM (#31487160)
So am I. I have interviewed a lot of “software engineers” lately and I think that our industry needs to do a better job of protecting that title.
Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by turtledove on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:09PM (#31486856)
Writing design docs isn't a bad part of the SWE job.

> that doesn't mean you should make a union to do that.

Usually folks don't unionize until their work consistently fails to deliver good working conditions, so, yeah, in this case you do need to unionize to get that.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by kanbara on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:24PM (#31486551)
one should not have to rely on the hugely imbalanced power structure between employer and employee to get better working conditions.

these people have stopped licking the boots of capitalism and started to demand change. there’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s no inherent moral value that people should adhere to in their work relationship that precludes them from forming a union.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by ProfXponent on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:21PM (#31486946)
This is such a stupid and naive take.

QA is a valuable skill set that is regularly underpaid and overworked. A good QA team makes or breaks a project, and there are plenty of examples of this in modern gaming.

Fuck “honor”, whatever the hell that means, and pay people what they are worth.

The game industry needs to be reorganized around the people who make the games instead of finance them.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by Aerroon on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @06:54AM (#31490393)
I disagree. I don't think a lack of a good QA team breaks a project. Modern gaming is actually a great example that it doesn't. A lot of (most?) video games released nowadays are riddled with bugs. And yet they still make a lot of money through sales, micro transactions, seasonal passes, dlc etc. Even when a game releases with no major bugs it doesn't attract new players who will spend money.

>The game industry needs to be reorganized around the people who make the games instead of finance them.

I don't see how this would work. Somebody has to pay all the salaries, legal expenses, expensive equipment and software etc. Expecting people that want to work on video games to pull that kind of money out of pocket to fund a project that may or may not make any money is unreasonable. Nobody that wants to invest their money is going to give it to people who won't give them a return.

Re:Quality assurance workers at Activision Blizzard subsidia... by ProfXponent on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @08:38AM (#31491179)
Indy games are in a golden age right now. Small teams are building stellar titles and making tons of money in the process.

Most of the horror stories you are hearing from the gaming industry are coming from large multinational studios, many of which are struggling financially.

Just look at the most recent battlefield release or cyberpunk for examples of what happens when you don’t value QA.