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Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by systemvoltage on Saturday May 21, 2022 @12:43PM (#31459416)
Go ahead. Explain yourself.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by RosanaAnaDana on Saturday May 21, 2022 @12:56PM (#31459550)
A taco is a small, to be held in the hand, street food predating the Spanish empire in southern Mexico and central america (Parker, 2006). It is composed of a small amount of meat or fish on a corn flatbread, usually with some amount of pico de gallo or salsa, and often with lime over it. Some key elements is that its a 'single ingredient' dish, it be hand held, and it be served fresh (traditionally as street food). Carne asada, al pastor, fried fish, etc. represent reasonable taco fillings and are not 'combined' with other, filler type ingredients, like beans or rice. There is another mexican dish, the tostada which incorporates those ingredients. A tostada is not a taco. A taco needs to be able to be picked up and eaten with one hand. That means it can not be over filled and it shouldn't be. If you want more food, order more tacos.

A burrito is as well a single ingredient food (read: no fillers like beans and rice unless that is specifically the single ingredient in the burrito). The primary difference is that a burrito is usually on flour tortillas and is wrapped to be held with two hands, often having substantially more content than a taco, which is specifically intended to be eaten with one hand.

The biggest criticism I'm raising is the American (outside of border states like CA, AZ, NM, and TX where they don't put up with that shit) tendency to accept cheaper, filler ingredients as primary to the contents of a burrito. This is a serious departure, where in border states and mexico, burritos might come with rice and beans on the side, they are never substituted as primary ingredients.

The broadest point is that there are many many ways of combining some filling, tortillas, and other ingredients. Just because it has those components does not a taco or burrito make.

Parker, 2006, https://web.archive.org/web/20080502160526/http://www.iccjou...

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by canjobear on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:26PM (#31459878)
Your argument is based on a prescriptive definition of “burrito” which does not match how the vast majority of English speakers use it. I can make any arbitrary taxonomy work by simply redefining the terms in a restrictive way, but in doing so, nothing is accomplished. It’s a form of the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, in this case no true burrito.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by pryce on Sunday May 22, 2022 @03:10AM (#31465671)
Then we must decide whether it is the English-speaking or Mexican Spanish meaning of the word 'burrito' that we are even discussing. If we want to be accurate, we should define our goals in a specific way, which hasn't been done here.

There are borrowed words in English where the meaning in the borrowing language is different than in the original (source) language. There are even terms, such as this one in Te Ao Maori, 'Takatāpui', where the meaning is intentionally different depending on whether the speaker is speaking Te Ao Maori or English, because of careful and intentional distinctions about preserving the meanings of words[1].

Things can get even more complicated when we attempt to remove our native language as a default frame-of-reference, such as attempting to determine what exactly is correct (or not, and if not, how) in the following conversation:

> Q: "What does 'sushi' mean?"

> A: "It's Japanese for 'burrito'.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takatāpui

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by uoaei on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:52AM (#31469471)
"Burrito" is not a word of English origin...
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by grayclhn on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:52PM (#31460167)
> The biggest criticism I'm raising is the American (outside of border states like CA, AZ, NM, and TX where they don't put up with that shit) tendency to accept cheaper, filler ingredients as primary to the contents of a burrito.

Having lived in San Diego and SF… they do indeed put up with that shit in many parts of those border states.

Fantastic comment, though. :)

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by dekhn on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:27PM (#31460473)
I generally agree with most of your assessments and classifications, but: I can definitely eat a tostada with one hand (if it's crispy). To me, a taco is a folded tostada (when I worked at a mexican restaurant, we also had a bowl-shaped tostada ("salad in a bread bowl"). To me, that is a continuum. The ingredients are a bit less important (my preference is al pastor on a steamed soft corn tortilla).

The moment you "wrap" (fully enclose in a tubular way), I think it moves to a different part of the embedded space which includes all wraps (https://worldwrapps.com/). The mission-style burrito definitely has the "rice and beans inside" in addition to the primary (meat, veggie, whatever), this sounds very much like the "in Texas, chili doesn't have beans" argument.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by bbkane on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:21PM (#31459827)
This is a great description for the original, most pure definition of taco. However, people interpret foods differently over time and space (just look at what "pizza" has meant for different areas over time), and, in my opinion, this evolution is natural and shouldn't be looked down upon.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by mvid on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:32PM (#31459952)
The pure definition, though, is still the common definition in most of Central America and in Latino communities. Feels odd to erase that correct, active definition because it was used for marketing unrelated things in unrelated places
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by hombre_fatal on Sunday May 22, 2022 @02:49AM (#31465556)
On the other hand, having lived in Mexico for almost a decade now, these explanations tend to merely be nothing but the unholy combo of pedantry + incorrect, with a big component that smells a lot like "I just traveled to exotic lands and I will tell you how those people eat" or "I had a taco during my layover in <some Mexican city> and can tell you what all tacos are".

Because the reality is that you can find tacos and food items of many variations in Mexico (or wherever) that the people there will call a taco, and they'll do it without any of the sort of snobbery you find in these comments.

Like, tacos are a single ingredient food item? Then why can I find people slopping on any number of side items down the street in Guadalajara? And it's still labeled a taco? They really need to read HN and become illuminated. They're wrong.

Frankly, the idea that Mexican cuisine (or whichever cuisine) was frozen in some snapshot back in history—and anything they do eat since then is "incorrect"—does more to erase reality than pointing out that maybe the cuisine is much more varied than someone on HN thinks.

And all of this is said before even getting into regional variations like what happens to cuisines once they cross borders into different cultures. Americans eat hard-shell tacos? It's a lot more interesting to me to explore why that is than to roll our eyes at how people are ugh doing it wrong. Maybe artifacts of one culture changing when they enter other cultures is the beauty of culture rather something that needs to be corrected.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by sampo on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:38PM (#31462717)
> Feels odd to erase that correct, active definition

I think this is because Americans feel big-brotherly protective (in a creepy way) about their Latin American communities.

Altered versions of e.g. Italian food (e.g. pasta carbonara with cream, deep dish pizza, submarine sandwiches, chicken parmesan), Japanese food (California roll, Philadelphia roll), Chinese food (fortune cookies, General Tso's chicken, beef and broccoli) don't cause similar reactions.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by teakettle42 on Saturday May 21, 2022 @10:47PM (#31464451)
> Altered versions of e.g. Italian food (e.g. pasta carbonara with cream, deep dish pizza, submarine sandwiches, chicken parmesan) ... don't cause similar reactions.

Like hell they don't! Most of your examples are just ignorable new inventions, but the reinterpretation of spaghetti carbonara (not pasta carbonara, you heathen) as a shitty cream sauce? I'll go to the mat to decry that horrendously disgusting perversion.

Anyone that prefers that hot mess probably also puts ranch dressing on everything, including pizza, and thinks Velveeta "queso" is delicious.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by pseudalopex on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:48AM (#31464966)
Americans celebrated a fast food chain bringing back Mexican pizza recently. Other Americans never miss a chance to declare sushi rolls aren't proper sushi.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:04PM (#31460283)
Let me know once people in the US stop referring to meat-filled pastry as "koláče". I was horrified to find out about that. But I wouldn't hold my breath on that one either.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by reaperducer on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:44PM (#31461112)
Let me know once people in the US stop referring to meat-filled pastry as "koláče".

Kolaches mean different things in different parts of the U.S.

In Chicago, they're often filled with sweet things, and sold by mom-and-pop shops and bakeries.

In Houston, they're mainly for breakfast, with things like eggs, bacon, sausage, brisket, etc. and sold by chains like Shipley's and Kolache Factory: https://kolachefactory.com

Recently, the Houston version of kolaches has made inroads into Chicago: https://www.howdykolache.com

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:46PM (#31461128)
Yeah, and eggs, bacons, sausages, and briskets have no business being in a sweet dish such as koláč (which looks like this: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:...).
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by reaperducer on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:38PM (#31462720)
That looks like a topless paczki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pączki

Paczki Day is almost as big a holiday in Chicago as Casimir Pulaski Day.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Sunday May 22, 2022 @01:44AM (#31465204)
If pączki are anything like Czech koblihy (to which they bear an uncanny resemblance -- cf. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobliha#/media/Soubor:Picswiss...), then their dough is must be very different from dough for koláče.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by cleansingfire on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:19PM (#31460906)
The only place I've seen kolatches (sp.) was fifty years ago in the little town of West, TX (and it's not really in West Texas, but more in between Fort Worth and Austin.) Those were pastries filled with various delicious things, including sausage and fruit.) I don't think I've ever seen kolatches anywhere else. I'd love to find more, and learn the difference. They are far from common in the USA sadly.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:44PM (#31461111)
I'm not sure I could tell you anything more than Wikipedia can already tell you in my stead. Sausages simply have nothing to do with koláče; koláče are basically sweets. You wouldn't put a sausage in a cake either, I'm sure.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by buildsjets on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:20PM (#31461427)
I sure as heck would put a sausage in a cake, and I do so frequently. It’s delicious, and it’s called “Pigs in a Blanket.”

https://reluctantentertainer.com/buttermilk-pancake-pigs-in-...

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:21PM (#31462530)
Isn't that massively stretching the definition of a "cake"? When I wrote "cake", I meant this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake#/media/File:Pound_layer_c... -- do you put a sausage in those?
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by buildsjets on Monday May 23, 2022 @11:24AM (#31480194)
These all sound awesome, I think I will have to make one of them this weekend. The "Old Time Pork Cake" is calling to me.

https://www.texascooking.com/recipes/sausage-bundt-cake.htm

https://newfoundland.ws/christmas-old-time-pork-cake-recipe/

https://eatwithjean.com/pork-floss-roll-cake/

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by selimthegrim on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:32PM (#31461524)
They can be found quite easily in Austin and New Orleans.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by t-3 on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:35PM (#31461035)
Never heard of 'em. Is it like a pasty?
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:47PM (#31461142)
It's supposed to look like this https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kol%C3%A1%C4%8D#/media/Soubor:... , but apparently in the US, some people put meat in them, when they're actually supposed to be filled with prune plum spread ("povidla") or some other fruit filling, poppy seed filling, or quark.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by bsg75 on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:01PM (#31462353)
Pasty - a term I did expect to see on HN.

Referring to the Finnish variety or other ?

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by t-3 on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:09PM (#31462430)
Yep, I have a lot of family in Copper Country.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by jhgb on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:58PM (#31460225)
What exactly is a "single ingredient dish" to you? This "Pico de gallo" thing already consists of multiple ingredients -- or so Wikipedia tells me. So does salsa, if I understand it correctly. Your notion of "single ingredient" must be different from mine.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by ghaff on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:43PM (#31460608)
I assume they mean typically a single protein.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by lostlogin on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:33PM (#31460524)
The ‘No true burrito’ argument.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by moron4hire on Saturday May 21, 2022 @05:26PM (#31462005)
By this definition, eating a slice of New York Style pizza topped with pepperoni in the traditional way (folded in half, standing outside) is a taco. Which is patently absurd.

How 'bout this definition: I'll eat whatever I want, call it whatever I want, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, because this isn't France and you're never gonna get a law passed on it. As they say in various kink communities, "don't yuck my yum".

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by heleninboodler on Sunday May 22, 2022 @01:34AM (#31465157)
> As they say in various kink communities, "don't yuck my yum".

This is a disturbing way to put it, because I learned that phrase from my kids' preschool. :D

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by felipemnoa on Saturday May 21, 2022 @05:36PM (#31462108)
Heretic! To the fires with you! A taco uses tortillas...
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by moron4hire on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:10PM (#31462442)
I actually hate New York Style pizza, and one of the reasons is the crust is so thin and flat.

The other reason being you have to subject yourself to going to New York to get it, and nobody should have to do that to themselves.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by robonerd on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:47PM (#31460656)
> The biggest criticism I'm raising is the American (outside of border states like CA, AZ, NM, and TX where they don't put up with that shit) tendency to accept cheaper, filler ingredients as primary to the contents of a burrito.

But rice and beans taste good. Even rice and beans alone is really tasty. Wrap it up in a tortilla with hot sauce and sour cream.. delicious! The meat sweetens the deal, but I can easily enjoy a burrito with no meat.

Whether you call that a burrito or make up some other word for it makes little difference, it is what it is, and it tastes damn good. It tastes great whether you call it a burrito or a 'rice-and-beans wrap with pork'.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by hbarka on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:28PM (#31459907)
Who else survived from starving in college thanks to Taco Tuesdays? The trick was to make two tacos from one because it was always served with two layers of the flatbread. The flatbread was sometimes corn, sometimes flour, but it was always generously served double layers.

Curious which is the traditional, the soft taco or the hard shell we know of from that franchise with a bell?

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by dekhn on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:31PM (#31460506)
historically, tacos were made soft (tortillas) but the tortilla can also be toasted to make it crispy. The taco is definitely one of the "truly from the old world, thing that people ate 4,000 years ago that is not too dissimilar to what you can get from a taco truck today"
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by 7speter on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:27PM (#31460471)
Its not supposed to be flatbread though, its a tortilla
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by dekhn on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:32PM (#31460519)
Wouldn't you place tortilla in the general flatbread category? Every culture has a flatbread.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by Ekaros on Saturday May 21, 2022 @07:32PM (#31463230)
I wouldn't even place it in bread category. Is a pie crust in a pie also flatbread?
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by thaumasiotes on Saturday May 21, 2022 @06:28PM (#31462600)
> Every culture has a flatbread.

They do? Bread in any form is not a major element of every culture. The Hawaiian equivalent seems to have been poi, which isn't even solid.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by hbarka on Saturday May 21, 2022 @07:32PM (#31463232)
Native Hawaiians had breadfruit.

A Navajo friend of mine made amazing flatbread. They call it Fry Bread. Tastes wonderful.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by dekhn on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:27AM (#31468518)
I'm always looking for counterexamples of my claim.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by thaumasiotes on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @06:05AM (#31490081)
Following up in another way, Eskimo culture can be safely assumed to lack flatbread since the diet lacked pretty much any plant-based element. Any other non-agricultural cultures, like pygmies, would also lack the ability to produce bread. (Not to say they don't eat it today; pygmies are commercially entwined with the settled people around them.)
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by thaumasiotes on Monday May 23, 2022 @05:45PM (#31485163)
The obvious places to look are Polynesia (as mentioned), Australia, and sub-Saharan Africa. What are the indigenous flatbreads?
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by 7speter on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:37PM (#31460569)
I guess now that I looked it up. Wikipedia calls it a flatbread but it has more in common with a biscuit since its unleavened and usually made with lard…
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by dekhn on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:43PM (#31460616)
think of leavening (either via yeast or chemical means) and lard as just extra feature bits in the larger flatbread space.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by hbarka on Saturday May 21, 2022 @03:34PM (#31461028)
We need to hang out in the park next to a taco truck and hash this out. The least convincing buys a round for all.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by ghaff on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:42PM (#31460595)
I've enjoyed many good breakfast burritos in Austin but won't oder them most places because, as you say, they tend to be stuffed with filler. Tacos can suffer from this too--I'm sure there must be some pork under all this cabbage--but you can usually get rid of some of the filler and there's not as much room to stuff a lot of it in anyway.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by systemvoltage on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:03PM (#31459628)
Holyshit, I concede! This is peak HN :-). Thanks for the lesson honestly.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by wl on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:20PM (#31460405)
That burrito definition excludes the Mission burrito, a grievous error.
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by dekhn on Saturday May 21, 2022 @02:29PM (#31460492)
Think of it like a feature in machine learning- there are many burritos, some of which have the "rice inside" bit and the "beans inside" bits set to one. Burritos themselves exist within wrappspace (https://worldwrapps.com/) which themselves are within the "self-contained food manifold".
Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by Dylan16807 on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:44PM (#31460085)
> A burrito is as well a single ingredient food

No they're not.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by anamax on Saturday May 21, 2022 @08:20PM (#31463590)
What is the grain of that burrito wrapper?

If it's wheat, that's from German immigrants into what became Texas.

Re:Engineering students create edible adhesive tape to keep ... by ramesh31 on Saturday May 21, 2022 @01:27PM (#31459887)
From one taco elitist to another, thank you.