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Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by oleganza on Friday May 20, 2022 @03:57AM (#31444554)
Also bitcoin != crypto, those are not even subset/superset for the most part.

Bitcoin solves one single problem of "digital cash" with the most robust and boring mechanism (known to mankind so far).

While the "cryptos" aim at satisfying demand for all sorts of p2p apps and moneymaking schemes that can be funded with the digital cash to avoid getting regulated out of existence.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by pavlov on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:09AM (#31444626)
It’s practically impossible to use Bitcoin as digital cash because it’s so slow and expensive. That was the original problem it purported to solve, but it failed miserably at that.
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by alangibson on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:40AM (#31444827)
Every time one makes the point that Bitcoin has no real utility, someone says 'Lightning network'. Does anyone know if it's getting any adoption?
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by xiphias2 on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:04AM (#31444955)
At this point it can be used for payments practically everywhere where Bitcoin accepted, but it’s not yet practical for payments over $100 as far as I know, so I still only use the base Bitcoin layer for paying for my travels.

There are new algorithms in late research phase though for much larger payments (like $5000) that are expected to go into production this year. I’m waiting for that before switching to using lightning network.

For people in the US though they can just go into a Walmart or McDonald’s and use it right now.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by beefield on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:26AM (#31445105)
> For people in the US though they can just go into a Walmart or McDonald’s and use it right now.

Am I right to assume that "use" here is in the same sense[1] that you can "use" "dollars" to pay your Big Mac in Paris with your US credit card? I.e. French McDonald's does not set the price in dollars but euros and does not need to touch dollars with a ten foot pole during the whole process and receives euros in their account?

[1] Which hardly makes any sense to me, to be honest.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by xiphias2 on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:37AM (#31445178)
Why doesn’t it make sense to use your USD based credit card in France? I use both EUR based credit card and my Bitcoin wallet while travelling in Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Costa Rica, Panama, and setting up bank accounts in those countries would be infinitely harder.

Regarding hotels and flights, I book it on internet, and I don’t even know which country the travel agencies are located, and I don’t care.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by xiphias2 on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:53AM (#31445289)
(Replying to sibling comment)

> It does not make sense (to me) to say that you use dollars to buy a big mac in Paris. You use euros, which your credit card company conveniently bills from you as dollars.

I see your point. To be more precise I use the MasterCard payment network that uses a combination of Mexican Peso, USD, and EUR in the background to settle with the merchant’s bank periodically in the background (and as I use Revolut based Mastercard, it’s even more complex).

Last month the biggest POS company integrated the lightning network, an international payment network protocol, that uses Bitcoin as its settlement currency and Bitcoin network using Strike, and as the POS company does the settlement with the credit card company, the merchant in practice doesn’t see the difference between accepting credit card payment or lightning payment, as it doesn’t handle any of the two (the POS provider handles them).

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by beefield on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:41AM (#31445203)
It does not make sense (to me) to say that you use dollars to buy a big mac in Paris. You use euros, which your credit card company conveniently bills from you as dollars.
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by bogomipz on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:28AM (#31446432)
>"At this point it can be used for payments practically everywhere where Bitcoin accepted, but it’s not yet practical for payments over $100 ..."

What's the significance of that $100 dollar amount with the lightning network?

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by sexangel on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:57AM (#31444912)
not entirely sure, but there appears to be investment from old-school banking, so that could be its on ramp into the classical financial sector.

oh yeah, & this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BZoKH-hX_o

but yeah, bitcoin has no utility. you'd just have to wait until The Merge inevitably occurs, or use any of the few PoS cryptocurrencies that are generally better & more capable than bitcoin in every capacity, like Avalanche, Cardano, Fantom, Solana, etc.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by MrMan on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:40AM (#31446573)
Algorand
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by barnabee on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:13AM (#31444669)
So far. If you spend any time in the research community you’ll realise that those problems are very likely to get solved. Lightning alone probably gets us there.

Its volatility and UX, as well as how negatively it is perceived currently (by some people) look like bigger blockers to me.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by technobach on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:04AM (#31444953)
The US adult population is ~250 million. With Bitcoin's ~300k transactions/day, it would take over 2 years for each of them to simply open a LN channel, if we dedicate the entire network just to onboarding.

Lightning will definitely not solve it.

edit: tps -> transactions/day

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by redox99 on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:31AM (#31444774)
What advancements have happened regarding lightning? Last I heard about lightning was around 2017, and 5 years later it doesn't really seem to have gained much adoption.
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by saalweachter on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:55AM (#31446110)
Fun fact: the Lightning whitepaper is now older than the Bitcoin whitepaper was when the former was published.
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by tsimionescu on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:28AM (#31445119)
Ligthning is an alternative to Bitcoin, not a fix for it. It has a different security model (much much much weaker), it uses entirely different technology, it is essentially centralized. The fact that it uses Bitcoin on the back end is mostly a detail of Lightning.
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by adastra22 on Friday May 20, 2022 @06:16AM (#31445414)
There is literally not a single thing true in this comment. I would advise you seriously revaluate where you are getting your (mis)information from.

Lightning is a way of using bitcoin. A way of cooperatively creating bitcoin transactions with multiple parties, in such a way that you can minimize the number of on-chain transactions required. It is bitcoin. It has the same security model as bitcoin. It uses the same technology. It is not in any way centralized (it's a p2p network of payment channel connections, with each operator running their own server).

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by tsimionescu on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:01AM (#31446807)
If you and I have a lightning node and a channel between us, and I send 1 BTC to you, this transaction is NOT secured by the bitcoin network, nor any similar technology. It's basically just a regular ledger that my node and yours keep track of (there's a little more cryptography in place, but not much more).

Even worse, if you saw my transaction, then sent me 1BTC worth of goods, then your node becomes offline and I forcefully close the channel with the original balance, I still have my 1BTC and there is no proof anywhere except your node that the transaction ever happened. So no security, unless both nodes are online.

Finally, unless you open direct channels with everyone you want to transact with, you will rely on a 3rd party node that does have such a channel. In practice, this likely means you will use one of a few major nodes that you trust to stay online and not refuse transactions, so the payments are in effect highly centralized.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by gitfan86 on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:41AM (#31447234)
It is almost like 99.999% of the crypto people don't have computer engineering or computer science degrees or have never built a production system that requires concurrency and fault tolerance over a persistence layer.

A system that validates new entries into a database can either be "very cheap and very fast" or "very fault tolerant and very decentralized". The speed of light in networking and the speed of modern CPUs make this unavoidable.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by imtringued on Friday May 20, 2022 @06:59AM (#31445702)
Lightning is a decentralised PayPal equivalent. Nothing more nothing less.
Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by rvz on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:24AM (#31444736)
> Lightning alone probably gets us there.

Which that is not Bitcoin and neither is it on-chain.

The parent comment is correct on Bitcoin's failure as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system and all it is instead, is a store of value. This is how you know it has failed in its intended purpose.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by londons_explore on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:54AM (#31444894)
A bitcoin transaction to be processed sometime in the next 24 hours costs $0.15 right now.

That competes pretty well with many bank transfer methods, especially international, which still take many days and cost sometimes $20+.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by pavlov on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:11AM (#31445006)
Cash settles immediately. "Sometime in the next 24 hours" is not digital cash.

Not to mention that Bitcoin is so volatile that the transaction's value in real-world currency may be 10% higher or lower within that 24-hour window, and of course you still need to pay someone to convert it into money if you're not planning on being a crypto holder.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by derriz on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:24AM (#31445088)
That's not really a fair comparison. Bitcoin cannot has very limited use for actual commerce - actually paying for stuff. So you also need to consider the inconvenience, complexity and cost of trading the received BTC for local currency.

I haven't paid anything for international transfers within the SEPA area for years. Depending on the source/destination bank, the transfer can be completed within an hour or so.

Sometimes the solution is simply better banking infrastructure. The banking/payments system in the US is a mess but it doesn't have to be so.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by happymellon on Friday May 20, 2022 @05:31AM (#31445142)
It really doesn't.

Bank transfers do not cost me and happen instantaneous, not 24 hours.

I can also transfer to the US, and they receive it in 24 hours. It still doesn't cost me.

Re:The cryptocurrency sell-off has exposed those swimming naked by yakak on Friday May 20, 2022 @04:18AM (#31444700)
bitcoin != crypto

Right, e-banking is crypto.

The field of Speculative Blockchain solutions is a tiny part of crypto. But your examples sound like they either are or anchor to speculative Blockchains so Bitcoin is the leading implementation of infrastructure for your examples.