News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Pewpewarrows on Friday October 21, 2011 @02:45PM (#3141099)
For the uninformed, these are two separate issues.

The first is that apps are laggy or jittery during scrolling or animations. This is partially due to poor coding from developers, but the main reason for its existence was the lack of hardware acceleration on Android devices. This changed with 3.0 on tablets, and now 4.0 on everything. Developers still have to opt-in with a one-line XML file change, due to compatibility issues. So in essence this has been solved across the board.

The second is what a lot of users are now referring to (and was largely masked by the presence of the former problem). And it's that there's a much larger drag distance required to "initiate" user interaction on Android than iOS. When I pick up a friend's iPhone, it seems like if a hair on my finger even grazes the screen the UI immediately (and appropriately) reacts. On every Android device that I've ever used, it takes approximately 0.5 to 1.0 centimeters before the UI will begin to react and scroll. This is what people mean when they say that it feels like you're "pulling" the UI on Android, while iOS has 1:1 natural interaction.

Is it annoying? Yes. But after moderate use I stop noticing it, until I happen to touch an iOS device again. Now that Ice Cream Sandwich has taken care of every other fault with the platform I had, this is really the last item on my list of complaints, having used Android devices for years on a near-daily basis. I don't know if it's a problem with the hardware of the screen sensors themselves or with the levels of abstraction to Java-land, but this should be their top priority for what I can only assume they'll call Jelly Bean.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by cbs on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:44PM (#3141339)
>Is it annoying? Yes. But after moderate use I stop noticing it

As someone who uses both devices, I really only notice this when I'm so board that dragging around a menu seems like a good way to kill time or plain old stoned. Its really surprised me how much I've seen this as a criticism of the android in the past few weeks. In the past I had always just written them off as being different, not necessarily better or worse, like a design decision to make sure that "Yes menu, it is in fact time for us to scroll" because there are many cases where the user won't have a steady finger but don't mean to activate scrolling.

But, if the menu feel is even being brought up as a valid comparison point, it is good news all around. Splitting these hairs is proof that both platforms have finally made it to the point of meeting most user's wants.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Pewpewarrows on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:54PM (#3141373)
Oh I definitely agree. To be at the point where this is the last real criticism of the OS that I've come to know and use is excellent.

And take it for what it's worth, but the instant reaction of iOS devices isn't necessarily for everyone. My father for example thinks that it's much too sensitive. He'll accidentally graze the screen when hovering his finger over something while reading or trying to get to a UI element, and all of a sudden the app starts scrolling, making him feel lost and frustrated.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by ugh on Friday October 21, 2011 @05:15PM (#3141737)
Oh my god. That’s intentional? Why? I don’t understand.

Makes me want to throw any Android device I’m using at the wall. You can’t imagine the amount of rage that creates inside me.

Why don’t they stop it?

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Steko on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:49PM (#3141356)
"So in essence this has been solved across the board."

Which is why ICS Galaxy Nexus demo units were reported to still be laggy?

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Pewpewarrows on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:59PM (#3141395)
Not from what I saw or heard. Engadget's review for example praised how silky smooth the entire user experience now was.

Though I can imagine that being a beta build running in debug mode doesn't really help, if someone did see the occasional hiccup.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Steko on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:01PM (#3141909)
"As to overall performance, we saw a good deal of stutter in the Galaxy Nexus before us. Taps were not always recognized and there were occasional delays in performing an instruction, though in Google’s defense, it was a phone fully loaded with running tasks and the software is being continually improved and optimized (i.e. it’s not yet fully baked). That having been said, it unfortunately remains the case that Android isn’t as swift and responsive as iOS or Windows Phone (or even MeeGo Harmattan on the N9). Or at least it wasn’t on the demo phone we got a look at. The subtle, pervasive lag that has characterized the Android UI since its inception is still there, which is not a heartening thing to hear when you’re talking about a super-powered dual-core device like the Galaxy Nexus."

http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/18/galaxy-nexus-android-ice-...

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by ecspike on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:31PM (#3142014)
I was able to play with the device for a couple of minutes and like Engadget found it to be smooth.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by chugger on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:49PM (#3141634)
Hardware acceleration is just one piece of the puzzle. Garbage collection is another issue. with ICS, you will now be able to run the garbage collector on a different core. great in theory but experience tells me that's a band aid solution.

A lot of people wonder why garbage collection is done manually in iOS/Obj C. Performance is one reason, battery life is another.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by chugger on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:23PM (#3141500)
is ICS going to fix all the crashes, virus/spyware/malware, poor battery life? will ICS even run on older Android phones? will your carrier even let you upgrade to ICS?
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by erwanl on Friday October 21, 2011 @05:04PM (#3141697)
Battery life is pretty good with Gingerbread.

ICS will be able to run on any phone able to run Gingerbread.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by valnour on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:42PM (#3141597)
It's hard to read your post will all that FUD on it.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by andylei on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:37PM (#3141565)
i mean, if you look at old iphones, they're pretty laggy and jittery on newer versions of ios
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by rimantas on Friday October 21, 2011 @05:52PM (#3141880)
You mean specifically iPhone 3G with iOS 4.0 (which was fixed with 4.1)?
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by gergles on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:11PM (#3141941)
Doubtful, he probably means things like my (current-gen) iPod touch, which runs like molasses with iOS 5. Stutters, jumps, unresponsiveness far worse than any Android phone I ever used.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by CountSessine on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:54PM (#3142073)
There's something wrong with your iPod. Have it looked at. I have an old iPhone 3GS that runs IOS 5 more smoothly than my wife's Nexus S runs Gingerbread. And on my iPhone 4 (not 4S) IOS 5 is buttery-smooth - even a bit faster than IOS 4 was in some respects.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by falling on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:21PM (#3141977)
There is probably something wrong with your iPod. I'd take it to the Apple Store. iOS 5 works fine on a 3GS, and your iPod has iPhone 4-comparable hardware.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Champer2 on Friday October 21, 2011 @07:24PM (#3142178)
The iPod touch (current gen) has 256MB of RAM to the iPhone4(S)'s 512MB. The iPod Touch (current gen) has a retina display which the iPhone 3GS doesn't have. These factors may have produced a difference in performance.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by chugger on Friday October 21, 2011 @07:06PM (#3142117)
he made that story up. he's full of it.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by anticregger on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:39PM (#3141578)
That's not the fucking issue here. The only issue is whether is if ICS is smooth and yes it is across the board. But not in apps that havent been updated to take advantage of the newly added HW acceleration yet.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by chugger on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:55PM (#3141661)
it is the issue. because it doesn't matter if you've got the fastest phone in the world if you can't use it because it's got spyware/malware/virus your phone's useless.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by eco on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:01PM (#3141908)
Where are you getting this notion that spyware/malware/viruses are prolific on Android? I can assure you that they are certainly less common on Android than on desktop computers. The Android Market is certainly less curated than the Apple App Store but it's not like it's some haven for cyber criminals. Furthermore, the applications you install all have permissions listed making it much easier to safely install software on Android than it is on a computer and yet here we all are being plenty productive with those (when we aren't on Hacker News).
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by chugger on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:57PM (#3142088)
Google is your friend.

Aug 24 2011: Android-targeted malware jumps 76% in Q2, McAfee says http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/24/android-targeted-malware-jumps...

Aug 01, 2011: Android Trojan records phone calls. CA security team finds more advanced Android malware http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/080111-android-trojan....

Aug 15, 2011: A malicious Android app that disguises itself as Google's new social networking platform, Google+, is capable of stealing data, and answering and recording incoming phone calls http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-android-spyware-answers-inco...

Sep 20, 2011: Android bug lets attackers install malware without warning http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/20/google_android_vulne...

Aug 4, 2011: 8 Notorious Android Malware Attacks. Nearly a third of Android users will fall prey to mobile security threats this year. http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/mobile/23130025...

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by anticregger on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:40PM (#3141583)
Of all the tech blogs I read, thisismynext were the only ones who reported a laggy UI. Engadget and gizmodo reported the UI as very smooth. Next time get your fucking head out of apple's ass and take a look at reality.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Qz on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:39PM (#3141316)
I have a HTC Droid Incredible and I don't see the second UI lag issue whatsoever. I just tested by dragging around on the home screen, the lock screen, the SMS message list, and my Dolphin HD web browser. I have to move my finger maybe 1-2 milimeters for it to start responding, but nowhere near .5 to 1 cm.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Pewpewarrows on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:49PM (#3141357)
As I pointed out in my post, the longer you use Android the further off your perception becomes. To get an accurate measurement I had to play with my Nexus S and an iPhone side-by-side, doing identical movements, and had a ruler and zoomed camera pointed at them both. After removing my mental bias from having become conditioned to that "pull" latency, the difference was pretty obvious.

I was also in the same boat about believing it was just a few millimeters, until I actually went ahead and measured it. My mind was thinking a millimeter was larger than it actually is.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by Qz on Friday October 21, 2011 @05:31PM (#3141801)
I just tested again, with measuring tape, and I can get the lock screen sliding in less than a milimeter. What device do you have?
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by eco on Friday October 21, 2011 @05:51PM (#3141876)
Try it with a scrolling list. The unlock button activates as soon as you press down on it. I was having the same results and didn't really believe his claim until I tried it elsewhere in the OS. 0.5 cm seems about right.

Anyone here familiar with Android's source code and can figure out where this behavior takes place? I'm curious if it can be easily disabled (if only to see what it's like).

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by tadfisher on Friday October 21, 2011 @06:04PM (#3141922)
Android has the concept of "touch slop", the value of which you can get ViewConfiguration:

http://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/ViewConf...

ScrollView views use this value internally to prevent accidental scrolling when tapping elements. You can change the touch behavior by subclassing ScrollView (or ListView) and overriding onTouchEvent() to ignore slop and start scrolling immediately on a drag event.

Incidentally, I can't stand most iPhone apps because of their over-sensitivity to scrolling (and their tiny list elements). I'm glad Android has these defaults.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by barrkel on Friday October 21, 2011 @03:50PM (#3141361)
Some lag is necessary in order to simply and reliably implement long-press actions, to distinguish them from drags. It's a bit like Windows ignoring small drags to help people make double-clicks on icons.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by saturdaysaint on Friday October 21, 2011 @04:05PM (#3141422)
Not true - iOS (being held up here as essentially lag-free) has several long press actions. Closing running apps in multi-tasking and organizing apps require long presses.
Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by eco on Friday October 21, 2011 @05:39PM (#3141830)
> Developers still have to opt-in with a one-line XML file change, due to compatibility issues.

Only if they are targeting a pre-ICS SDK version. Applications targeting 4.0 have hardware acceleration on by default.

Re:After the iPhone 4S, Android just feels wrong by foobarbazetc on Friday October 21, 2011 @08:37PM (#3142359)
"So in essence this has been solved across the board."

LOL. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

It's a marginal improvement at best on Honeycomb.

Android's performance woes are unsolvable due to fundamental design decisions in the UI layer and in the choice of a garbage collected language for a mobile device.

Sure, they might be less noticeable in your quad core monster phone, but it'll still be laggy compared to an iPhone 3GS running iOS 5.

Complaining about iOS's amazing touch responsiveness is ridiculous at best. It's a marvel of engineering prowess.