> as opposed to chiropractors, who are universally charlatans and frauds

I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

That a chiropractor can relieve pain doesn't mean that chiropractics in the "medical" sense isn't a fraud. Imaging that shown the entire concept of "subluxations" in the chiropractic sense are a myth.

I've gone to chiropractors for manipulations. Some even were able to bill my insurance (yet surprisingly the cash price was the same as my insurance copay, imagine that). But I treat it the same as getting a massage. It feels good, and I might feel better after, but it's absolutely not any sort of medical science.

What do you mean by "subluxations" being a myth? Most of my back issues come from subluxation of the T2 vertebra. As shown by x-rays and physically being able to feel that is is out of alignment with the rest of the spine.

Are you referring to those charts that say these are the random other symptoms you might have from alignment issues? Those definitely seem shady, and pseudoscience at best.

Edit: Oh, I see. Overloaded term. I was coming from the medical side, but it can be used differently in a Chiropractic sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic#Vertebral_subluxa...

Yes, I just meant the chiropractic side. They're absolutely real and can be a problem medically. Chiros sort of co-opted it.

Yeah, I'm not sure about this. After two car accidents one year apart my back was killing me. I went to a year for physio and nothing happened. Then a friend recommended this chiropractor and within 3 months I was fine. To be fair this chiropractor said alot of chiropractic was a bit fluffy, and I insisted we discuss the science behind it and stuff which he was totally literate about.

I'd go to another one again.

> I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

A _good_ chiropractor will only perform adjustments, but the foundations of Chiropractic "medicine" is pseudoscience that many still practice to this day. Wikipedia has a good summary on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic#Pseudoscience_ver...

But, in my opinion, if you're only going to a chiropractor for adjustments you'd be better off finding a Registered Massage Therapist or Physical Therapist (depending on your level of pain).

If you're reading this and haven't, please click the Wikipedia link. Scroll down to the photo labeled "A chiropractic manipulation of a horse."

I hope it makes you laugh as much as it did for me.

Equine chiropractors are pretty mainstream nowadays. The one I use is an excellent vet to start with who also does adjustments. There's wackos out there, but there's definitely some properly trained individuals who do a lot of good. I get my mare done every other year or so. Her back gets sore, it's super obvious when you're riding her, the chiro comes out, and she's so much more relaxed and moves more freely when I get on her the next day. A year or two later, she's sore again and we repeat.

Crap, even the old school Kansas cowboy I used to ride with uses them. When his ranch horses start acting sore, he gets a chiro out. The man can do pretty much anything else veterinary himself, and does, but calls in an equine chiro for his working animals.

There's a million videos of pets and animals getting adjusted on youtube. Hard to take any of it as a serious science. Search "Goose chiropractics."

In the past, I spent a lot of money on chiros basically "cracking" my back. I eventually taught my partner how to do it and she does it so much better than any chiro ever did.

One thing I will say after having seen ~10 chiros is that the ones who actually x-ray you are the only ones I would place any trust in.

Having spent many years dealing with chiropractors... There are two types of issue they handle. The first is sharp pain due to some, likely traumatic, event like whiplash or trying to pick something up that is too heavy or a sports injury. They can often fix those issues with limited treatment and a few exercises.

Then there is chronic pain due to some issue like disk breakdown or another illness. They can do little to nothing with these illnesses but they will not admit that. They will bill your insurance for all they can and eventually when insurance will not cover it anymore they will try to get you to pay out of pocket or tell you to kick rocks.

I wish chiropractors would be upfront about this but I've never talked to one that is willing to. I have spoken to several who I know socially who have said this is more or less true in their clinic. At least the part about being able to help some but being useless with chronic pain.

Are they fully charlatans and frauds? No. But they do take advantage of people who they cant help and promise something they cant give.

Yeah I think people are blinding themselves to the huge differences between chiropractors and just lumping all of what they do into one single bucket and tossing it out. In physical labor heavy areas they help a lot and 90% of their business comes from relieving pinched nerves, fixing dislocations, deep tissue massages, and physical therapy regimes. Nothing quacky about that, especially when it is hard to find a doctor these days who will put their knee into your back and pop your shoulder out and back into the proper place instead of prescribing narcotics and endless rest for weeks on end that is not feasible in those communities.

But on the other end of the scale, you also got ones who don't have that sort of business and are selling new-age crystal moon beam energy healing power and claiming anything and everything they can sell you will cure you of any and all ills which I think most people would consider irresponsible and dangerous.

One side argues for chiropractors because of what they do above on top of being super cheap and affordable for the average labor worker. The other side argues against it because they only see new-age crystal therapy in their areas while also being able to themselves afford better healthcare with a significantly less physically damaging workload.

The science presents that the only proven outcome of Chiropractic is sudden death.

I take it you've never done much to strengthen your core and stretch your muscles properly?

A physical therapist can help you with that long-term back pain you got.