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Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by rrss on Saturday April 23, 2022 @11:28AM (#31135074)
> Scientific outreach has a real “draw the rest of the owl” problem

It seems like this is just the “you need to study the problem and it’s dependencies for many years to understand the physics and mathematical details” problem. Which does not actually seem like much of a problem to be solved, just a reality.

Your example in the other comment depends on linear algebra, so ~first year undergraduate of most technical fields. IMO that’s fundamentally more accessible than the black hole information paradox, with its dependencies on general relativity and quantum field theory.

I’m sure more technical videos and posts could be made about this, but how small would the target audience be?

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by headsoup on Sunday April 24, 2022 @08:09AM (#31143293)
> It seems like this is just the “you need to study the problem and it’s dependencies for many years to understand the physics and mathematical details” problem. Which does not actually seem like much of a problem to be solved, just a reality.

Which is exactly the "draw the rest of the owl" problem. Something that takes substantial time, skill and knowledge to achieve is demonstrated as "three easy steps."

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by mungal on Saturday April 23, 2022 @11:45AM (#31135261)
I wonder if we’re in agreement?

The key word is ‘numerical’.

Maybe you’ve yet to see or do numerical analysis of both general relativity and quantum field theory but they are in fact both linear algebra.

Which as you point out is “fundamentally more accessible”.

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by oefrha on Saturday April 23, 2022 @02:06PM (#31136672)
As a physicist who used to work on unifying QFT and gravity, no, QFT is not accessible at all, to anyone. General relativity is kind of accessible to a non-physics student if they otherwise have a strong math background, which is like 0.001% of the population, optimistically.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by sonofaragorn on Saturday April 23, 2022 @04:21PM (#31138123)
All these topics are so advanced that even for someone trained in one it would take years to become proficient in the other.

Source: I'm a Physics PhD

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by a9h74j on Saturday April 23, 2022 @09:05PM (#31140290)
Fun fact: When I was in a highly respected grad school in the 1980s (multiple Nobel Prize winners in the department), the QFT course was presented in such an obscure way, I stopped attending lectures, and I doubt anyone passed. The next year under "QFT" they taught Ashcroft -- i.e. a Solid State Physics course. That way requirements were met.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by oefrha on Saturday April 23, 2022 @10:24PM (#31140732)
I took QFT in college and then grad school in two of the leading institutions in HEP. I can’t say the instruction was very enlightening in either place. Whichever path you take (not sure what you had in the 80s, I’m thinking of Peskin & Schroeder / Schwartz / Weinberg, maybe even supposedly easier textbooks like Nutshell) it’s just a very dense subject.

Now, GR or at least the core of it is a lot easier as long as you’re mathematically prepared for differential geometry.

Btw, I took particle physics from the Peskin in Peskin & Schroeder when I was an undergrad. Everyone in the class (like four of us by the third week?) was super duper lost by midterm.

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by paulpauper on Saturday April 23, 2022 @10:44PM (#31140823)
yeah like this for anything. String theory is easy if you're mathematically prepared by being a field's medalist
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by oefrha on Saturday April 23, 2022 @11:03PM (#31140929)
Having attended many IAS talks, I don’t think string theory is easy for the likes of Ed Witten.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by wiz21c on Saturday April 23, 2022 @03:37PM (#31137683)
0.001% is already about 800_000 people :-)
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by zuminator on Sunday April 24, 2022 @01:50PM (#31146395)
80,000. And imagine, QFT is even harder than percentages!
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by wiz21c on Friday April 29, 2022 @09:56AM (#31205137)
I wonder how many people on earth can compute 8_000_000_000 * 0.001% 'cos obviously I'm not in that part :-)
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by noslenwerdna on Saturday April 23, 2022 @01:24PM (#31136239)
General relativity is not linear algebra. Just glancing at the underlying equations, you can see they are non linear. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_tensor]

The same is true for quantum field theory. I'm curious why you're so confident that they are "in fact both linear algebra"

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by paulpauper on Saturday April 23, 2022 @10:46PM (#31140839)
they involve matrices
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by hither_shores on Sunday April 24, 2022 @09:28AM (#31143757)
They also involve addition, but that doesn't make them arithmetic. Knowing linear algebra gets you perhaps 10% of the way to having the math background for a first course in GR.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by lkrubner on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:05PM (#31135492)
General relativity is linear algebra? Has anyone called up Tullio Levi-Civita and told him that his services will no longer be necessary?
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by mungal on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:35PM (#31135784)
I’ve seen this sort of reactionary response in mathematics and music as well.

When talking to a musical educator complaining about struggling students just starting out I’ll say “I found it extremely helpful to paint the C major scale on my guitar when learning music theory.”

And they respond “Well what about chromatic 12 pitch atonal music?! What would Anton Webern say?!”

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by wumpus on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:50PM (#31135927)
As someone who has studied GR (at the grad school level) and music, no, that's a terrible analogy.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by TheOtherHobbes on Saturday April 23, 2022 @06:40PM (#31139362)
In GR terms, Levi-Civita is more like "This is a major scale and you need to know it" than serialism.

Some subjects are just plain hard and only accessible to smart persistent people.

GR and QFT definitely qualify - but they seem to be warm up exercises compared to whatever Quantum Gravity will eventually become.

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by sidlls on Saturday April 23, 2022 @04:18PM (#31138098)
Eh, no. The problem with your analogy is that the “not linear algebra” bits aren’t esoteric, rarely practiced or used edge cases: they’re the core of the mathematical model.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by pfortuny on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:44PM (#31135868)
I guess you are mistaking the “local linear nature” of tensors for differential geometry. GR is certainly not “linear algebra”.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by WhitneyLand on Saturday April 23, 2022 @05:33PM (#31138805)
>Maybe you’ve yet to see or do numerical analysis of both >general relativity and quantum field theory

I call you out. Don’t think you’ve done either one after reading your comments.

Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by rrss on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:27PM (#31135699)
No, just because general relativity and quantum field theory use linear algebra does not mean they are linear algebra.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by hither_shores on Sunday April 24, 2022 @09:22AM (#31143705)
Numerical relativity is not just or even mostly linear algebra. Even in the weak-field limit, where linearized GR is qualitatively correct, you still have to actually solve the resulting PDE.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by mhh__ on Saturday April 23, 2022 @11:51AM (#31135336)
They're both what now?
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by mungal on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:03PM (#31135475)
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by pfortuny on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:45PM (#31135882)
A tensor is a differential structure with pointwise linear properties. But the important thing is not the pointwise behavior but the differential nature of the “family of tensors in non-Euclidean space”.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by hither_shores on Sunday April 24, 2022 @09:40AM (#31143895)
This is too strong. There are important fields whose points are not tensors (e.g. spinor fields) and treating them like tensor fields risks introducing all sorts of subtle confusions.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by pfortuny on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:25AM (#31144919)
Of course you are right but I was just trying to explain to OP that certainly General Relativity is not just “linear algebra”.
Re:I stopped working on black hole information loss by mhh__ on Saturday April 23, 2022 @12:31PM (#31135736)
That's very weak