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Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by jjoonathan on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:19AM (#31109741)
Because the people who wrote those letters don't trust you to pay up if stonks go down by 100x your net worth. They trust Elon, though, because he has more net worth.

I'm taking a broad definition of "trust" that includes "we can sue you and recover the money."

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by a4isms on Thursday April 21, 2022 @11:07AM (#31110409)
80s Junk Bond King (and convicted felon*) Michael Milkin tells this story.

He was once talking to an ambitions entrepreneur about funding a buyout with junk, and the entrepreneur asked, "This is a lot of money. How do you know I'll replay it?"

Milkin says he replied, "Because if you miss even a single payment, I'll call your debt and take not just the company, but every single asset you own."

———

* That would be presidentially pardoned convicted felon Michael Milkin. The rules for "righting injustice through pardons" are very different for the rich than the comfortably well off, much less those living paycheque to paycheque.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by kmonsen on Thursday April 21, 2022 @11:29AM (#31110738)
Pardoned by Trump. We should name and shame each one until this stops.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by itsoktocry on Thursday April 21, 2022 @11:53AM (#31111101)
>We should name and shame each one until this stops.

Why should it stop? Do you not believe in redemption? Milken has done (and continues to do) a lot of great charity work with his fortune.

Besides, if you look at what Milken was actually convicted of, it's pretty tame, especially by today's standards. And he spent two years in prison for it. What more do you want?

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by a4isms on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:08PM (#31111327)
I actually like what you're saying, but there is a problem here that is larger than whether it is just that Mr. Milken deserves a pardon. The problem is that justice unequally applied is injustice.

So if we are saying, "Everyone convicted of a felony who serves their time and who then rehabilitates themselves should be pardoned," I'm all for it. And in my jurisdiction (Canada), people can apply for Federal pardons, and many receive them. There is a standard way to do it, a standard procedure to follow, and in theory, everyone is treated equally by the system.

The injustice comes in if there is a special fast-track for a pardon one gets by hob-nobbing with your fellow wealthy oligarchs, one of whom is elected President and gives you a personal pardon. That's a bad look that suggests that all felons are equal, but some felons are more equal than others.

Likewise, I am extremely leery of talking about "doing great charity work." Reputation laundering is my preferred term, and again this is not something available to all citizens. Nobody gives a crap if some felon donates $1,000 to a soup kitchen, but donate $1,000,000 and you get called a "philanthropist."

I'm all for charity and doing good works, but I'm not for giving philanthropists anything special in terms of justice that people who can't afford to be philanthropists get.

IMO, the answer is not to burn Milken's pardon, it's to pardon more convicted felons who do their time and then turn their backs on whatever criminal acts they used to commit.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by bombcar on Thursday April 21, 2022 @12:27PM (#31111554)
Yeah we need more pardons not less, and we need blanket laws that forbid making hiring, etc decisions based on convictions (AND forbid lawsuits around hiring) more than X years ago.

People are afraid to expose themselves to liability for hiring a felon, even if said felony is ages ago, because if something goes wrong everyone will say "well you shouldn't have hired a felon."

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by kmonsen on Friday April 22, 2022 @02:00AM (#31118687)
100% agree with you and the parent, but it should not be at the whim of a governor/president.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by kmonsen on Friday April 22, 2022 @02:04AM (#31118703)
I believe in redemption, and I think US jail sentences are extremely excessive. That is an issue for voters.

I do not believe in random justice where connected people can be pardoned even if they deserve so when there are literally millions in jail who could be as deserving.

Sadly important today, pardons can be corrupt. Trump several times promised pardons for people willing to go to jail for him. And he delivered on those pardons.

So yes I believe in redemption, but not by executive decree. That belongs in a time when we had kings with real power.

Finally, the prison time is often from a plea bargain (I do not like those either but different story). So the time sentenced to does not always have a meaning.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by HWR_14 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @02:27PM (#31113360)
None of which means he deserved a pardon.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by gavinray on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:24AM (#31109815)
Ah, so it's a reputation/wealth-based thing. That makes sense.

By that logic though -- if you're a billionaire, could you try to buy every profitable company on borrowed money?

Eventually you'd make the money back and since you don't have to pay anything out of pocket, you effectively have $INFINITY dollars to bargain with.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by rsstack on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:29AM (#31109889)
When he requests debt from the banks he needs to show that his current owned assets are worth more than his current debt _and_ the new requested debt. They wouldn't loan the hypothetical billionaire infinity dollars, unless the billionaire has infinity dollars in assets that aren't offset by previous debt.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by nabla9 on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:28AM (#31109870)
It's not reputation based. Musk as requested secured enough loans to pay with cash. His ownership in SpaceX/Tesla is the collateral (as well as his Twitter shares if he buys them).

He has no "infinity" of anything. It's called leverage and it probably maxes out around 60-70% of everything he owns.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by naveen99 on Friday April 22, 2022 @08:07AM (#31120597)
seems crazy to take that much leverage when you are worth $200B. the shorts must be salivating at a chance to force a margin call on him, just for fun. Would have been better to just do a tesla twitter merger for free.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by bombcar on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:44AM (#31110084)
The "make the money back" part is what prevents it.

Musk has 100 billion of TSLA say.

He mortgages it to buy TWTR. Now he has 100 billion of TSLA, -40 billion loan against it, and 40 billion of TWTR. He could mortgage TWTR and buy something else, but it would have to be smaller, because the banks won't loan 100% of the value of the thing.

Or he'd have to make another $40 billion and pay off the first loan to mortgage it again.

Think of it as trying to use mortgage properties in monopoly to continue buying other properties.

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by KptMarchewa on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:59AM (#31110286)
>He could mortgage TWTR and buy something else, but it would have to be smaller, because the banks won't loan 100% of the value of the thing.

Unless you're on robinhood: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/robinhood-traders-discover-glitc...

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by bombcar on Thursday April 21, 2022 @11:14AM (#31110507)
Robinhood is the exception that proves all the rules.

Maybe we'll see a wallstreetbets post "Musk couldn't take TWTR private but I did via robin hood bug"

Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by s1artibartfast on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:33AM (#31109938)
Banks don't like loaning multiple times with the same collateral
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by pydry on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:28AM (#31109869)
You could try but it'd probably work out for you about as well as when the hunt brothers tried to buy up all the silver on earth.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by shkkmo on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:27AM (#31109855)
Each new loan would have increased scrutiny due to the other loans you carry.
Re:Musk announces funding secured for Twitter buy by leetcodesucks on Thursday April 21, 2022 @10:27AM (#31109854)
Trump and Gordon Gekko did this