> maybe I should delete the HN listing.

Yes please. :)

Now I found that I can't delete it anymore :(. I think I need to ask an admin to do that.

@dang if you're reading this, please delete this listing, Thanks.

Users flagging it can also remove it from the front page.

No one was stoned in the bible for downloading MP3s.

And if they were Jesus certainly would have stepped in to stop it.

What kind of theft (piracy for the pedants) did the Bible give the green light to?

Pedant here. Copyright violation is not theft. Piracy describes another act entirely, too. The bible gives a green light to share words and song publicly, and to duplicate freely for the masses what is in arbitrarily short supply. Even our modern, applicable laws do not mention theft, so you ought try to avoid strawmanning in the future and look up which millenium the DMCA was written for.

This is the exact kind of thing I was anticipating.

Regardless of terminology, you’re breaking rules set by someone else and doing something because you feel entitled to do it. Even if the original file doesn’t change you’re taking possession of something you don’t have the right to possess.

Go nuts. It doesn’t fundamentally matter at all. But don’t try to loophole your way out of a situation that is very clear.

If you consider piracy theft you'd have to consider Jesus multiplying the fish theft. As far as I know he wasn't stoned for it.

Fish didn’t have a TOS that I’m aware of. Spotify does.

That's interesting, because nowhere in Spotify's TOS are the words "theft" or "piracy" mentioned. And even if it was, I don't think basing morals or definitions of words on a single company's terms of service is a good idea. Sure, the TOS probably specifies somewhere that you're not allowed to rip music from their software, but whether doing so is theft has nothing to do with Spotify.

We can semantic and pedant this all you want.

But fundamentally you and I both know that Spotify has made rules that say you can’t write a script to download all the songs as MP3s or OGGs or whatever.

If you want to break those rules, go nuts. But don’t hide behind terminology. You’re taking something somebody else doesn’t want you to have because you feel like you’re entitled to it.

Just fucking own it.

You'd be correct if you didn't word it as "taking". Nothing is being taken from anyone, and this might seem like semantics to you but it's an important point when piracy is being discussed. When piracy happens, the net result is that there's more of it in the world, which is contradictory to theft.

If you think that's immoral or should be illegal, it's a separate discussion. The point here is that for that discussion to be had the distinction needs to be made.

No, I’m still correct.

You are taking possession of something you don’t have rights from the original owner to possess. This is true even when the original thing remains unchanged.

Again, I’m not interested in debating the definition of theft/piracy/copying/whatever. It’s a very tired argument made by people who want to validate their decisions and actions.

Just say, “I don’t care. I’ve talked myself into thinking there’s no issue with me doing this so I’m going to do it.” The lengths people will go to argue the semantics of this shows me how clear the issue really is.

I'm not surprised you're not interested in debating the definition of theft and piracy, considering that doing so would invalidate the inflammatory comment you made originally. It's very easy to keep the moral high ground when you refuse to engage with a subject in good faith while strawmanning every argument proposed, and that is something I'm not interested in engaging with.

It is a license violation and - to the best of my knowledge - bible has no opinion on this.

The Ferengi Rules of Aquisition have something for this one.

#218: "Sometimes what you get free costs entirely too much".

Good point, I personally think that since I am paying for Spotify, I have the right to get the mp3/ogg files.

You’re free to believe whatever you like but in this case you are 100% wrong.

Came here for the tech/startup news, stayed for the biblical studies debates

that makes sense, I am renting this. not buying.

Lesson learned.

may I ask why?

You’re not buying MP3/OGG files. You’re buying a license to stream songs from Spotify on their terms.

"Streaming" is a transfer of data to the user's computer. The user is simply choosing to manually manage the data already being transferred. This is legal.

It may be something you can physically do, but it’s not something that’s allowed by Spotify’s terms of service.

HN moment

Haha - yeah, I'm (obviously) getting a pasting for it because this is after all HN, but I spotted it and it was a slight WTH moment, and I thought worthy of comment (somewhat justified given it's sparked a bit of discussion). I don't have an axe to grind with OP, and I don't tend to be Spotify's biggest fan (even though I'm also a premium subscriber because of the library they offer), but it simply struck me as quite an odd disconnect.

A glorious one at that