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Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by e2le on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:03PM (#30656803)
Is the Pi-Hole even reasonably effective these days?

> Nearly 70% of smart TVs and 46% of game consoles were found to contain hardcoded DNS settings - allowing them to simply ignore your local network’s DNS server entirely.

https://labzilla.io/blog/force-dns-pihole

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by brynx97 on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:12PM (#30656849)
You can create port forward firewall rules to redirect any outbound DNS port 53 traffic. This will not work for DNS over HTTPS, which is going to be increasingly common for IoT I'd imagine.

edit: method for this on pfSense: https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/recipes/dns-redir...

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by gray_charger on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:40PM (#30657023)
You could try this for DoH blocking. It probably needs help staying updated.

https://codeberg.org/unixsheikh/dohblockbuster https://openbsdrouterguide.net/#blocking-doh

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by syshum on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:18PM (#30656885)
Then you have to contend with DNS over HTTP, Thanks Firefox and Google....

DNS over HTTP has got to be the most ill thought out "privacy" feature that has done more to HARM privacy then it could ever help

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by walterbell on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:19PM (#30657252)
> the most ill thought out "privacy" feature

Whose privacy? DoH helps to protect billions in revenue for the ad network that funds Chrome, Firefox, Safari and web standards.

A better web will need a different revenue model.

In the meantime, here's a maintained guide to blocking DoH with pfsense, https://github.com/jpgpi250/piholemanual/blob/master/doc/Blo...

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by eli on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:36PM (#30657327)
Many of the biggest ISPs in the US are actively monitoring DNS queries, collecting the data of which sites you visit, and packaging it for sale to ad networks and data brokers. DoH stops that.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by DistractionRect on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:18PM (#30657580)
It really doesn't, as server name indication is sent in clear text. As encrypted SNI didnt take off, you dont actually get privacy benefits from DoH and friends, just security/mild inconvenience to censors.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by NavinF on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:39PM (#30657684)
> encrypted SNI didnt take off

Says who? I think your data is very old considering that ECH replaced ESNI 2 years ago. IIRC it has ~50% adoption, same as TLS 1.3. Just about every company that cares about security supported ECH for years.

Moreover, someone has to move first. If DoH wasn’t widely deployed you’d be complaining that ECH is useless because DNS is unencrypted.

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by syshum on Sunday March 13, 2022 @05:43AM (#30659656)
Yes and it is better that google and cloudflare do that collecting under the guise of protection...

People really are gulible aren't they...

DoH is a not or a privacy feature. It simply changes who is collecting your data and makes it harder for responsibile network operators to protect their users under the guise that the big tech companies are really protecting the users from the network operators and "big bad ISPs".

Ironic given the billions big tech is making from that data.

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by eli on Sunday March 13, 2022 @11:46AM (#30662278)
Google and Cloudflare don’t sell data on dns queries per their privacy policies. Verizon does.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by syshum on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:51PM (#30666991)
I see this common response, but that is not really a valid rebuttable. Companies do not need to sell your data to violate your privacy, in the case of google their entire model is selling their TARGETING, not the data. That is still a violation of privacy. The fact they did not "sell" it to a 3rd party to form the customer profile changes little.

In the case of cloudflare, it is going to be interesting how they continue to justify the free public services to institutional investors now that they are public. I have a feeling there is going to be some strong pressure to either cease the free services, or find away to monetize them which likely will involve some kind of usage of that data maybe not selling per say, but some other kind of targeting or something to add to the profitability of the company.

I am no more comfortable with cloudflare having my data than I am with google or verizion, I have never used any of their DNS services

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by eli on Monday March 14, 2022 @09:23AM (#30672114)
Google doesn't sell targeting based on DNS queries.

> I am no more comfortable with cloudflare having my data than I am with google or verizion, I have never used any of their DNS services

It's not either/or. If you use Cloudflare or Google DNS and it isn't encrypted then Verizon has it too. With DoH they don't.

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by eli on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:27PM (#30657281)
That's a stretch given the context. A smart TV maker can put whatever they want in their own client software. They don't care what features Firefox and Google support.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by throw0101a on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:01PM (#30657476)
Who do you think was pushing for the DNS-over-HTTPS standard?

   Authors' Addresses

   Paul Hoffman
   ICANN

   Email: [email protected]


   Patrick McManus
   Mozilla

   Email: [email protected]
* https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8484
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by eli on Sunday March 13, 2022 @03:51PM (#30665049)
If DoH didn’t exist, a device manufacturer could trivially reinvent something equivalent. DoH isn’t the problem.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by syshum on Sunday March 13, 2022 @05:10PM (#30665745)
They could also do that with out DoH, they dont because it is not "trivial" and prone to all kinds of downsides.

DoH is the problem here, as it hides things from network operators making it harder to block ads, spam, and other items at the network level under the guise of privacy, when in reality DoH's actual goal is to further centralize the internet into approved gate keepers like CloudFlare and Google.

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by walterbell on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:31PM (#30657305)
Smart TV retail prices are subsidized by revenue from data analytics on content search and viewing.

Web browsers are subsidized (free) by search (ad) revenue.

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by chillfox on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:15PM (#30657558)
I would rather pay more for a TV than have it subsidized by ads. Or even better, a TV with no smart features, then I can just connect a computer for whatever smarts I want.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by jeena on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:53PM (#30657780)
That is what I always do, HDMI is great for that.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by jjulius on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:38PM (#30657011)
Yes; PiHoles are used for far more than just blocking smart TVs. The difference between browsing the web at my house and browsing away from home is so stark that it's almost not worth browsing most sites if I'm not behind it.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by JohnTHaller on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:32PM (#30657647)
Curious why you're not using Firefox + uBlock Origin. It does CNAME lookups.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by vlunkr on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:41PM (#30657352)
I run a simple VPN at my house alongside pinhole. You can block ads anywhere that way.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by Zizizizz on Sunday March 13, 2022 @04:35AM (#30659217)
Yep, took me about 5 minutes to set up with tailscale https://tailscale.com/kb/1114/pi-hole/ (wireguard)
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by jrnichols on Saturday March 12, 2022 @11:45PM (#30658045)
that is what I am connected to right now. it's amazing how much more lightweight the internet is in general with pi-hole/etc.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by jjulius on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:14PM (#30657553)
I've been strongly considering it precisely because of this, just need to get around to setting it up.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by axjmc on Saturday March 12, 2022 @10:02PM (#30657482)
I do the same. The same pi runs a wireguard server.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by tbihl on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:06PM (#30657183)
So true. At about one week per year spent at a relative's home, I start to consider putting a pi-hole there, too.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by kstatz12 on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:34PM (#30657317)
I did what i think is the logical extreme and put a pihole on my tailscale network and use that as my dns on any device connected to that network so i have it on the go
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by tbihl on Sunday March 13, 2022 @11:46AM (#30662291)
Ooh, I will be all over that if the fiber rollout in my neighborhood ever finishes.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by SmellTheGlove on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:29PM (#30656953)
I block my TV’s MAC at the router. I use a roku for the streaming apps, which doesn’t seem to hardcode it’s DNS yet. But when it does you can just write some iptables rules. When they switch to dns over https, well I don’t know then haha.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by dec0dedab0de on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:06PM (#30656822)
Sounds like we also need a list of IPs to null route
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by icecap12 on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:37PM (#30656999)
The workaround is already in use for ad hosting - serve all the content from one domain (or an IP) with services natted behind that, so if you block it, nothing works.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by matheusmoreira on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:48PM (#30657071)
The ideal solution is custom clients for every service. Why use their proprietary software? We should make our own software we can use to connect to their servers. That way we can make it do whatever we want.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by hiptobecubic on Saturday March 12, 2022 @09:05PM (#30657173)
You two are talking about different problems.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by dec0dedab0de on Saturday March 12, 2022 @11:55PM (#30658112)
In that case we need to proxy, but only the wanted requests.

Though in the case of a smart TV, you would want to block everything except for whichever streaming services you're subscribed to.

Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by woodruffw on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:14PM (#30656855)
It probably depends on your use patterns. I have a console and a TV in my apartment, but I spend much more time on personal computers than I do on either. My Pi-hole instance is still reasonably effective for that, and I'm sure I could (eventually) be motivated to do the workaround described in the post you linked.
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by teeray on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:39PM (#30657018)
You can DNAT those requests at the router over to a Pi-Hole, unless they’ve upgraded to DoH
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by simcop2387 on Saturday March 12, 2022 @08:13PM (#30656852)
I've setup firewall rules to redirect traffic from some devices to avoid that, but some are starting to use dns over https which is more difficult to deal with
Re:Smart-TV blocklist for Pi-Hole by radikalerludwig on Sunday March 13, 2022 @04:04AM (#30659038)
pass in on $int_if proto { udp, tcp } from any to any port domain rdr-to [pihole_ip] port domain