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Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by JKCalhoun on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:07AM (#30600681)
I think I disagree. I think Jobs personality was such that he would have either ended up founding a company (or perhaps ended up in prison for selling narcotics).

I sense his manipulative personality (my words, for other's you can substitute "reality distortion field") was always there. I'm not disputing Wozniak of course, but I think Jobs growth was in learning how to channel that personality toward selling product.

Jobs got to where he was because he had a smart friend. But there were a lot of smart people in the Home-brew Computer Club and elsewhere around the U.S. and world — and a lot of friends of these smart people.

Maybe it was a happy accident of history, but I think Jobs was the right person with the smart friend, just looking desperately for "the next big thing".

The Next Big Thing was not, as he found out, "blue boxes". But I bring that up as an example of his entrepreneurism showing itself at an opportunity even before Apple.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by yyyppp on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:18AM (#30600803)
That's such a disgruntled take. Having a "smart friend" was merely a nice advantage.

Jobs' strength was in how he saw the world. His intuition, ability to imagine the future, inspire others and execute on that vision. Marketing and communications skills then almost felt like a by-product of such rare personality traits. I suggest reading "Jony Ive: The Genius Behind Apple's Greatest Products" or any interviews with Jony where he talks about the interactions they had with Steve.

The level of product and design thinking Steve and Jony had is so outside of some measurable 'data' that engineers often tend to underestimate its importance.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by stocknoob on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:42AM (#30601086)
It makes me chuckle when people dismiss the industry-defining success of Apple as just marketing.

Gee, why don’t their competitors try that?

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by dragonwriter on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:43AM (#30601106)
It makes me chuckle when people dismiss the industry-defining success of Apple marketing.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by rowanG077 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @12:59PM (#30603235)
It's not like marketing like Apple is easy. They build a brand over decades. You can't "just" copy that. Apples brand is absolutely the most valuable thing Apple has.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by stocknoob on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @01:16PM (#30603518)
Agreed; that brand was reinforced by a stream of (generally) high-quality products.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by throwanem on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:11AM (#30601518)
Wasn't Ive also the genius behind the Touch Bar, the butterfly keyboard, and USB-C ports for everything because of their beautiful symmetry? If we're talking about swings and misses, we should talk about those, too.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by sangnoir on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @01:13PM (#30603453)
...and many generations of aesthetically pleasing but unusable mice, and the thermally-limited trash can Mac Pro.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by JKCalhoun on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:56AM (#30601296)
Oh, I agree. Having a "smart friend" though is why we have Apple and not who-knows-what.

I was actually trying to make the point that he was exactly positioned because of his personality to find some level of greatness. That that greatness would end up being AAPL is, I claim, the "smart friend".

Jobs, for one, knew better to have smart friends, knew also how to push smart friends to do big things.

I am in no way trying to take Jobs down a notch.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by kobalsky on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:29AM (#30600911)
> Jobs got to where he was because he had a smart friend

You can dislike the man, but saying that is not fair, he was far from a one hit wonder.

Apple, NeXT, Pixar? those are the ones I recall. Luck won't get you there.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by JKCalhoun on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:00AM (#30601366)
As I replied in another comment, I didn't mean to come across as dismissive of Jobs — if anything I am trying to make the case that Jobs rose to the occasion when others in the same "lucky seats" did not.

But just to be pedantic with your list, NeXT's success is debatable and not likely to have happened at all if Apple had not happened first. And from what I've read, Pixar did its best when Jobs got out of the way and let them do what they wanted to do: make films, not hardware, not software as Jobs imagined.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by kobalsky on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:11AM (#30601521)
> Pixar did its best when Jobs got out of the way

he got out of the way and became disney's biggest shareholder in the same deal...

when talking about Job's nose for success that's a big detail skip around.

the deal with NeXT left him with control over the board of directors on Apple.

I don't like him and I don't like how Apple operates in the developer's landscape, but I HAVE to acknowledge that what Jobs touched turned into gold.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by KerrAvon on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:24AM (#30601718)
Yes, NeXT was in fact a notorious failure by 1997, which had a lot of us scratching our heads at Amelio paying $400M for it. (And that the x86 version of the OS was slow and fragile. But, yes, unlike BeOS, you could print. And that still mattered at the time.)

The lessons Steve learned at NeXT enabled the huge success of his second tenure at Apple.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by tinus_hn on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:57AM (#30602218)
Don’t forget NextStep which in its Cocoa incarnation is a very important pillar under Apples success.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by rowanG077 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @01:02PM (#30603276)
I don't think you got the right idea from his message. Tons of people had smart friends. Hell, I do have some smart friends. Yet I, and most other people with smart friends, don't end up doing even close to what Steve Jobs did.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by echelon on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:51AM (#30601229)
Luck, skill, hard work, grit, vision.

You still need luck to discover opportunities with the correct growth slope in the market gradient landscape, funding landscape, etc. Some of this is intelligence, but it's also "right place, right time" and "who you know".

But you also need the skill and hard work to execute, grit when facing headwinds, and vision to see the gradient landscape as it ascends and unfolds into the stratosphere. You have to be adaptable. Future thinking, but realistically grounded in implementable plans with a pragmatism for building things the market will want, avoiding the traps your biases may set up for you.

Jobs had all of this.

Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by dhosek on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @10:59AM (#30601346)
In short, luck is necessary, but not sufficient.
Re:Steve Wozniak: Steve Jobs wasn’t a natural-born leader by echelon on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:03AM (#30601411)
Bingo.