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Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by DethNinja on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:36AM (#30588284)
Do these cloud gaming offerings really make a profit with current hardware costs?

I feel like large companies are pouring money into this with the hope that they will be able to lock users into their cloud offering. However, it is likely they are losing huge amounts of money because of the hardware costs.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by Animats on Monday March 07, 2022 @01:55PM (#30591806)
Do these cloud gaming offerings really make a profit with current hardware costs?

Judging by the ones that have gone broke, no.

"Cloud gaming" of the kind where the game runs on a server and the results are sent as video to the client has been tried, on and off, for about five years. Most of the early providers are gone. The trouble is that each user needs an entire server, one comparable to a gamer PC.

Cloud gaming services seem to come in two flavors - expensive, and loss leader.

Shadow PC is in the expensive category. Price is $30/month. When you connect, they launch a server for you and load your environment into it. So you're buying a part-time VM. Apparently you can stay connected as long as you want, although I'm not sure if there's a limit they are not mentioning up front.

NVidia GEForce Now is cheaper. Price is $10/month. You get kicked off after 6 hours. For $17/month, you get a better server with an NVidia 3080 and 8 hours before being kicked off. There's a free tier, where you wait to get in and get kicked off after an hour or two. Originally, the prices were lower, but that was in the loss leader phase. It also helps that NVidia makes GPUs. You can only run games that NVidia has ported to that system.

Google Stadia is $10 a month. Games have to be ported to it, and there's suspicion it may soon join the long list of former Google products.

Vortex's site now says they are no longer accepting new users, and their blog is a Google Stadia ad.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by officeplant on Monday March 07, 2022 @02:22PM (#30592183)
Keep in mind that the base tier of Google Stadia is completely free when it comes to free to play games like Destiny 2, or if you buy the game outright.

I still play Cyberpunk 2077 on the free tier of Stadia due to a promotion where the game was only $45 and came with a controller/chromecast. Sold the hardware to pay for the game and now I just play with an Xbox controller on whatever computer or phone I'm on at the time.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by treis on Monday March 07, 2022 @02:45PM (#30592434)
>Shadow PC is in the expensive category. Price is $30/month.

That's surprisingly inexpensive. The graphics card they promise is nearly $1,000 by itself. For what you'd spend on a DIY build you could probably get 4-5 years of subscription.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by GauntletWizard on Monday March 07, 2022 @03:55PM (#30593214)
It's quite a bit more than 5 years[1].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnLive

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by popotamonga on Monday March 07, 2022 @03:08PM (#30592695)
I am very amazed with GEForce Now. I thought the lag would be unbearable. I tried some fortnite and i'm not even a gamer and even won some rounds. Astounding. If it's that good for fast FPS then it's a no-brainer for slower types of games. Would gladly pay 50€+/mo if i was a gamer just so i wouldn't have to bother to keep upgrading my pc.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by rasz on Monday March 07, 2022 @05:27PM (#30594205)
Fortnite is not an FPS, its a slow paced gamepad friendly survival base building game.

'Tim Sweeney described it as “Minecraft meets Left 4 Dead.”'

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by mwint on Monday March 07, 2022 @06:03PM (#30594527)
> You get kicked off after 6 hours

Is that 6 hours of continuous time, or does it indicate a quota of 6 hours total for the month?

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by zitterbewegung on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:43AM (#30588372)
Not 100% about this guess that I have but if its "free" it probably means that they calculated that they have x% extra server availability and they provide that for "free". Google Colab makes it obvious when they provide you a GPU but I don't know about Microsoft.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by YPPH on Monday March 07, 2022 @10:04AM (#30588591)
Exactly what I was thinking, they can just use spare Azure capacity.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by charcircuit on Monday March 07, 2022 @10:11AM (#30588691)
The only problem is you need powerful machines with GPUs which will only be a small subset of spare capacity.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by bob1029 on Monday March 07, 2022 @02:08PM (#30591985)
I think the primary technical challenge is the scale of AAA games.

For me, this stuff gets viable when one game studio goes all-in on building a streaming-only game experience that considers all economics of scaling GPUs.

If you reduce visual fidelity enough, you can get away with a lot more clients per host. Hell, depending on how you architect things, you might even be able to serve some clients from servers that dont even have GPUs.

The upsides of cloud gaming are pretty solid if you can get over the caveats. The biggest thing for me would be competitive gaming experiences that are guaranteed to not have any cheaters. That would feel really nice.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by samstave on Monday March 07, 2022 @11:57AM (#30590194)
On similar note, where is HW going once it completes its lifecycle in the cloud?

Are pods being donated to schools?

This would be a great idea, is to give a pod to a school with management tools etc and teach the kids how to interact with effectively [aws/gcp/azure] mgmt tools to build up a skillset early and accelerate how the yoots understand what cloud is and how its managed.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by quantumduck on Monday March 07, 2022 @12:04PM (#30590297)
I could be wrong, but I think the hardware cannot sustain outside their servers farms without significant investment in the things needed; it's not like the throw away entire server racks at a time, the probably only retire small pieces of the hardware at a time.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by MikusR on Monday March 07, 2022 @10:41AM (#30589060)
Microsoft is using Xbox Series X. Nvidia is using their own GPUs.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by bentcorner on Monday March 07, 2022 @12:02PM (#30590271)
Here's what the Xbox cloud hardware looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4Xqy8kG4&t=18s
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by treesknees on Monday March 07, 2022 @01:27PM (#30591440)
Is this essentially 4 xbox's crammed into a 2U server?
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by gnabgib on Monday March 07, 2022 @05:18PM (#30594100)
It is 8 xboxs in the 2U chassis apparently (they're stacked two high)[0] analysis [1]

[0]: https://external-preview.redd.it/Ma7bVRkbUuoM4xhzbJFe3qdTzAZ... [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/xcloud/comments/gdp48d/project_xclo...

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by pjmlp on Monday March 07, 2022 @01:59PM (#30591862)
Yep, and this is one of the reasons why devs don't care about Stadia, with NVidia and Microsoft offerings they basically have to fine tune existing code to cloud workloads, not rewrite it from scratch betting into a vendor that is know to kill products.
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by enos_feedler on Monday March 07, 2022 @10:33PM (#30596138)
Curious where you work or who you know that gives you the strong insight that developers don’t care about Stadia. Can you share?
Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by pjmlp on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:00AM (#30597195)
Where I work doesn't have anything to do with games.

I follow game development since the 16 bit demoscene days when I used to hang around with crackers, switchers and ProTracker musicians, read Hugi, then I graduate to being a IGDA member, Gamasutra subscriber during its existence, consumer of MakeGames and Develop, attended a couple of GDCE events, having some interviews at well known console manufacturers and eventually deciding that I would rather keep doing boring enterprise consulting than suject myself to game industry working conditions.

Which leaves me with a network of people that are still in the industry, naturally there are opportunities to talk about Stadia and very few of them are impressed with Stadia's track record or its owner long term commitment.

Re:Microsoft Flight Simulator's cloud debut comes with upsid... by enos_feedler on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @06:11PM (#30621216)
Interesting. I used to crack games for Fairlight/Razor 1911, attended siggraph from 2001-2006 (even volunteered for the conference), worked at nvidia for 3 years on the windows GPU driver. I don't talk to anyone about games anymore. I have outgrown consoles but I play stadia on my TV because it doesn't require one. When I show my friends they quickly order a stadia controller and do the same. I also worked at Google in the same building as the stadia team (but not on stadia itself, or related. I don't know anyone who works on it personally)