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Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by iudqnolq on Monday March 07, 2022 @05:50AM (#30586277)
The people hurt by your actions are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to. As such, refusing because you think it's morally wrong that American bills are spelled weird is amoral to me.
Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by bradleyjg on Monday March 07, 2022 @06:38AM (#30586584)
> are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to

No one is making this as a decision. Restaurant owners that have tried to put in place a no tipping policy have customers tip anyway because Americans are uncomfortable not tipping. They then think, somewhat accurately, the restaurant has high prices. We are stuck with a bad system.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by ethbr0 on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:23AM (#30587404)
It's not a bad system, per se, but is a poorly documented system.

There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected." And European menus should read "We compensate our staff sufficiently, so tipping is not expected."

In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by Symbiote on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:14AM (#30588029)
In France, bills usually say "service compris" which means "service included".

In Britain, bills usually say "Service charge" or "Service is included" [1]

But I think these are exceptions, and I wouldn't expect it in general -- just like it doesn't say "Service included" when I buy a buy shoes in France or Britain, even though the staff usually have to fetch them from the stock room.

[1] https://i.inews.co.uk/content/uploads/2019/01/oh.jpg

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by JshWright on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:49AM (#30587687)
> There should be a note on American menus that says "We underpay our staff, so 15-20% tipping is expected."

I was recently in a restaurant that had exactly that. There was a fine print note at the bottom of the menu explaining that because a state law prevented servers from splitting tips with the kitchen staff, a 3% surcharge would be added to the check so that non-tipped staff could "earn a living wage".

https://www.squidlipsgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Sq...

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by iudqnolq on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:29AM (#30587468)
Agreed, except that I think it's poorly document and a bad system.

That's why I started this by saying I'd have an issue with someone who kept not tipping after being informed about the issue.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by ethbr0 on Monday March 07, 2022 @11:11AM (#30589496)
The bad or not feels arbitrary. It's "different".

But I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason that "customer -> staff" is objectively better or worse than "customer -> owner -> staff".

Same money, gets to the same place.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by bradleyjg on Monday March 07, 2022 @10:05PM (#30595984)
* In reality, both of these are never written out, and everyone is expected to learn them culturally. Which ultimately leaves tourists in an awkward spot.*

It does more than confuse tourists, it locks every restaurant into the system whether the owners wish it or not. That’s why I think the “we underpay” with its pejorative tinge is inappropriate.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by gampleman on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:51AM (#30588447)
It's somewhat disturbing that paying someone a reasonable price is a question of morality rather than jurisprudence. If you left establishments in other countries having payed 20% less than was on your bill, it could well be a matter for the police (in practice of course if it was a small absolute amount, perhaps they wouldn't bother the first time you did it...).
Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by iudqnolq on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:56AM (#30588503)
Totally agree.

Interestingly, people have been (wrongly) arrested for not paying tips in the US. They were quickly released, but I think that misconception indicates how strong of a norm paying at least something in tips is.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by arnarbi on Monday March 07, 2022 @05:15PM (#30594058)
In the short term yes. But that is exactly what the industry and employers rely on.

Long term, tipping just means these employers can compete for labor against other (non-tip) industries forced to pay higher, and without having to reflect that additional cost in their prices to the end customer.

The idea that the employer is the one getting the tip is a myth, and a well bolstered one for obvious reasons.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by arnarbi on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:05AM (#30601435)
Er, “employer” should read “employee” in the last paragraph.
Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by dataexporter on Monday March 07, 2022 @11:36AM (#30589892)
Tipping culture in the US will never change unless millions of customers suddenly stop paying tips. When millions of customers stop paying tips at the same time if puts the pressure on establishments to start paying their employees fair wages. Customers should go on tip-strikes.
Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by Aeolun on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:26PM (#30610931)
> The people hurt by your actions are not the ones making the decision you're objecting to

The same thing is true for the sanctions on Russia.

Nonetheless they are the only tool at my disposal.

Re:Zero rupee note (2015) by iudqnolq on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @11:29PM (#30610948)
There's a significant difference between shelling children and charging you an extra 15% for your dinner.