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Re:RISC-V is succeeding by admax88qqq on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @12:35PM (#30517138)
They will have no choice. Either ARM becomes irrelevant as people switch to an easier to license ISA, or they have to swallow a different profit model and compete by having the _best_ ARM cores in an open market of ARM IP.

The trend with RISC-V suggests that ISAs are going to be commoditized and the real value will be in the implementations themselves.

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by YorkshireSeason on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @01:57PM (#30518393)
> real value will be in the implementations themselves.

It is not that difficult to re-target a micro-architecture (what you call implementation) to a new ISA, especially if the ISAs relatively close, as most modern ISAs are. RISC-V and Arm ISAs are an example where that should be especially easy.

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by admax88qqq on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @02:37PM (#30518940)
Totally, all the more reason that the specific ISA is less important than the implementation/micro-arch.

Why pay for ARM if you can retarget to RISC-V and still retain most of the benefits of your designs.

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by YorkshireSeason on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @03:41PM (#30519695)
As "baq" also says: you pay Arm (or Apple, or Qualcomm or ...) for the micro-architecture. I expect Arm to drop licensing costs for their ISA to zero to compete with RISC-V at the low end.

Right now, the Arm ISA has much better micro-architectures than RISC-V, why bother with RISC-V? I think this will change over the next 5 years. One of the ways to change this could be Arm selling RISC-V implementations.

Of course there are also dangers in RISC-V: one is that we will get too many RISC-V versions, so no stable software ecosystem emerges for any single one of them. Adapting Linux, GCC and so on to your specific version of RISC-V (or any processor really) is rather expensive.

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by baq on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @03:34PM (#30519634)
you'll pay ARM for a good ARM RISC-V CPU.
Re:RISC-V is succeeding by cestith on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @09:00AM (#30527355)
Market segmentation exists. RISC-V being open means it's also open to ARM. You may, in the future, pay ARM to license a SoC that's a RISC-V ISA core or four with their tried-and-true peripheral cores and maybe a couple of M0 cores to boot.
Re:RISC-V is succeeding by klelatti on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @02:55PM (#30519150)
Assumes that Arm have no implementation IP - which comes with the ISA and is not available to others - and that the only factor in choosing an ISA is how 'easy' it is to license. Very strongly disagree with these assumptions.
Re:RISC-V is succeeding by ksec on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @01:22AM (#30524374)
> Very strongly disagree with these assumptions.

It is the fundamental basic business ideas that they have it all wrong. Which is why every time these discussions came up they are non-productive. It is no different to saying Linux would take over desktop in the 90s because it is free. We are in 20s and coming up 30s. It is still not happening.

But at least ( or hopefully ) we have passed stage where RISC-V is fundamentally better ISA than ARM. And talk about the business aspect of it.

Edit: Ok I was wrong, the ISA debate is near the bottom of the page. I didn't invent the term "Riscy Silver Bullet" for no reason :).

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by ansible on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @10:20AM (#30528325)
> It is no different to saying Linux would take over desktop in the 90s because it is free. We are in 20s and coming up 30s. It is still not happening.

The desktop? Maybe not. But Linux has done well with laptops in recent years (Chromebooks). Definitely not "taken over", but 30 million units a year is nothing to sneeze at either.

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by yywwbbn on Friday March 11, 2022 @05:37AM (#30638359)
ChromeOS is Linux in name only, just like Android. Google just needed a kernel and a functional low level stack. They can switch to Fuchsia in the near/medium future and most user would probably not notice a thing.
Re:RISC-V is succeeding by klelatti on Wednesday March 02, 2022 @05:05AM (#30525664)
"Riscy Silver Bullet" is very good.

Completely agree.

Re:RISC-V is succeeding by melony on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @02:34PM (#30518914)
ARM won't become irrelevant as long as Apple exists.
Re:RISC-V is succeeding by bonzini on Tuesday March 01, 2022 @04:18PM (#30520127)
Arm is the fourth ISA for the Macintosh and its descendents. Apple has shown three times that they're anything but wed to architectures.