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Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by knolan on Sunday January 30, 2022 @05:43AM (#30135716)
I worked in Bell Labs from 2012 to 2018, unfortunately then it was a shadow of its former self. The MBAs had taken over.

While there Weldon tried to pivot the place from being ‘like twitter’ to an incubator to a like a startup. He got an Apple Watch so we were going to be a wearables lab. He threw together a book on the supposed future of networks and conspired to get it to the NYT #1 by forcing us all to buy it.

There were endless reorganisations. Disastrous leads parachuted in to wreck groups. Weldon played favourite to an alarming degree only to turn on them when they didn’t deliver on the aforementioned vapid promises.

We had endless managers holding endless meetings telling the smart people what they should be doing and not listening to what the smart people wanted to or could do. All hands meetings telling us how great everything was while they were letting a third of us go.

They engaged in vanity projects like putting a 4G network on the moon and getting us to build endless fake demos for technologies that didn’t exist and then acting surprised when told said technology didn’t exist.

The funny thing was that the old timers over in Murray Hill just ignored all of this and continued to work away on their research untouchable like some prize zoo exhibit.

It was a place full of the most wonderfully intelligent people managed by fools who wasted fortunes on flashy demos rather that let the smart people take the time to build something.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by christophilus on Sunday January 30, 2022 @08:02AM (#30136810)
Makes me think of Buffett’s saying that goes something like: “I invest in companies that could be successfully run by monkeys because eventually they will be.”

I don’t know how an organization avoids this fate, but it does seem to eventually come for all enterprises.

IBM, Bell Labs, GE; who else should be on that list?

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by dopylitty on Sunday January 30, 2022 @09:12AM (#30137342)
From its history since the MD merger you could argue Boeing should be on this list.

It's the inevitable result of prioritizing profit rather than prioritizing the creation of quality products that the people working at a company can be proud of.

That's why you see companies fall apart when the founders leave. They're replaced by people who prioritize profit for the company and wealth for themselves rather than product quality so the company ends up rudderless.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by rl3 on Sunday January 30, 2022 @01:15PM (#30139549)
>That's why you see companies fall apart when the founders leave. They're replaced by people who prioritize profit for the company and wealth for themselves rather than product quality so the company ends up rudderless.

Which ironically fucks over profit anyways, just about every time. I think it's more of a personal greed thing combined with incompetence, on top of perverse incentives that come with being a publicly traded company.

The quarterly profit model all but ensures a societal-scale myopia in the end.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by Aloha on Sunday January 30, 2022 @02:22PM (#30140194)
Unless the founder of the company builds a culture that is designed to survive without them at the center, the company will eventually fail without them there.

One of my former employers was like this - the founder was a brilliant engineer, who installed good financial controls, and was himself decent at the business end.

But, he was a micromanger, and he never sought to create replacements for himself inside the company, he tended to penalize people who stepped out of line too. So once he was out of the picture (he sold out), we didnt really have the right person to run the company, or the right culture to just install a generic manager with industry expertise, it instead was a company that had been formed for the founders personal needs.

That company was purchased by a multinational, and is now being systemically dismantled.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by kibwen on Sunday January 30, 2022 @09:59AM (#30137731)
Google has been on this list for the past decade, as demonstrated by the Google+ fiasco of 2011. Same for Microsoft in the post-Gates era and Apple in the post-Jobs era. As for Facebook, the vapid metaverse hype shows that it has well and truly jumped the shark.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by josefrichter on Sunday January 30, 2022 @10:26AM (#30137945)
I would argue that Apple is doing fairly well in post-Jobs era, probably much better than anyone expected. Microsoft seems to be making some steps forward here and there, improving its reputation among developers and end users (although they still do their fair share of missteps).
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by TedShiller on Sunday January 30, 2022 @01:16PM (#30139555)
Microsoft will always be a pathetic company
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by porknubbins on Sunday January 30, 2022 @05:00PM (#30141588)
Apple has done some pretty ugly stuff related to the App store monopoly and fighting the right to repair but having monopolistic tendencies has always been baked in to a company that wants you to run both its hardware and software, and that is not the same thing as being MBAized (ie greed/evil and technical prowess can be orthagonal). Their recent processor success proves they are not another IBM.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by davidb_ on Sunday January 30, 2022 @08:42AM (#30137100)
> IBM, Bell Labs, GE; who else should be on that list?

Intel felt quite a bit like IBM during my time there circa 2010.

I wasn't familiar with this quote, but wow was that my experience at large tech orgs. I wish I would have known this about 15 years ago, as perhaps I would have done a better job picking orgs to work at early in my career instead of being so frustrated.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by TedDoesntTalk on Sunday January 30, 2022 @11:25AM (#30138490)
Kodak - can you believe they used to be a defense contractor (cameras or lens for spy satellites, among other things)
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by rossmohax on Sunday January 30, 2022 @11:48AM (#30138678)
AFAIK Kodak strength was film, not cameras or lenses.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by TedDoesntTalk on Sunday January 30, 2022 @03:13PM (#30140656)
They also made cameras. Ever hear of the wildly popular Brownie? Anyway their film expertise does not take away their involvement in cameras for spy satellites in the 1960s.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by mistrial9 on Sunday January 30, 2022 @12:44PM (#30139250)
please define "strength" (?)
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by amelius on Sunday January 30, 2022 @02:42PM (#30140388)
expertise
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by amelius on Sunday January 30, 2022 @10:50AM (#30138176)
The Peter principle.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by bjarneh on Sunday January 30, 2022 @10:53AM (#30138203)
Boeing
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by krylon on Sunday January 30, 2022 @09:13AM (#30137349)
This sounds disturbingly similar to my time at T-Systems as a trainee.

Brilliant tech people getting managed to death by clueless MBAs. It was a great place to learn, though.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by sokoloff on Sunday January 30, 2022 @08:43AM (#30137104)
> conspired to get it to the NYT #1 by forcing us all to buy [his book]

How many people worked at Bell Labs at the time? It looks to be a little over 600 now, which in relation to NYT #1 (best selling list?) having less-than-1000 employees all buy a copy seems to be a relatively ineffective strategy.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by rjsw on Sunday January 30, 2022 @09:52AM (#30137676)
If it was a hardback then that could make a big difference to sales.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by knolan on Sunday January 30, 2022 @11:31AM (#30138538)
There were considerably more when you look at the various European sites and other staff.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by seaman1921 on Sunday January 30, 2022 @07:39AM (#30136645)
Bell labs was the original mafia though. Rob pike, Dennis Ritchie, Ken Thompson...
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by Angle_Devoid on Sunday January 30, 2022 @06:52AM (#30136237)
I'm assuming bells labs no longer has the financial backing of a monopoly like AT&T that they had 40 years ago?
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by knolan on Sunday January 30, 2022 @11:38AM (#30138599)
It was cleaved off AT&T as part of Lucent and then merged with Alcatel. Part of the problem there was that it was never clear if Lucent merged with Alcatel or if Alcatel acquired Lucent. The whole company was pretty dysfunctional but nothing too unusual there.

Nokia came along flush with MS money from the sale of their handset business to buy Alcatel Lucent and got Bell Labs for free. Neither company was doing particularly well flogging network gear and together they didn’t do much better.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by Zeromika on Sunday January 30, 2022 @07:17AM (#30136482)
I suppose even if they had the funding the company itself is at it's value extraction phase.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by gompertz on Sunday January 30, 2022 @10:57AM (#30138244)
They are now owned by Nokia.
Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by amelius on Sunday January 30, 2022 @10:50AM (#30138170)
> and getting us to build endless fake demos for technologies that didn’t exist

But of course researchers are to blame too, if they lend themselves to doing stuff like this.

Re:Dennis Ritchie Home Page (2006) by knolan on Sunday January 30, 2022 @11:33AM (#30138550)
True, it was all some people did… and some continue to do after our site was shut down. They know nothing else.